Tableless Website Question

[thomas09]

Hi Everyone,

Would it be better to make website table less? Has anyone ever developed website completely table less?

And, what's the purpose of making a site table less?

Hope, I will have some good inputs from you guys.

Thanks...

__________________
Thomas
Live life in South Carolina, USA

[Eternal_Howl]

What's the purpose of making a website table-less? It makes the page load quicker than if it's in tables.

Die hard fans of CSS will say you should only use CSS, but in all reality, due to Internet Explorer not adhering to the webstandards, you can sometimes get vastly different results appearing in each browser. I was given some advice once, when working with css to test it in Firefox first and then look to fixing it up for IE.

I use CSS for main layout (like your three cols etc) and occasionally tables for smaller content (or things that it's easier to just do tables in rather than sitting at the screen for a week trying to figure it out.

Use your own mind, explore the options - with CSS you can create faster loading pages, sometimes with some really interesting effects, but tables are easier to figure out depending on the complexity of your site design. If you go for CSS for the core and then utilise tables occasionally on certain content, go forth - you are the designer of your own corner of the web (just make sure it's cross-browser compatible - appears the way you want it to in other browsers aside from the main one YOU use).

[boogyman]

Originally Posted by thomas09

Would it be better to make website table less? Has anyone ever developed website completely table less?

For the last 8+ years I have been working with css. People who have historically created websites using tables can often find it difficult to switch initially, but just as I did, once you get the hang of the different methods, it comes quickly.

And, what's the purpose of making a site table less?

For starters, tables were meant for record (tabular) data, they were not initially meant to be used for the creation of a layout. I highlighted the layout portion, because tables are not bad, they are just often abused, and used when they shouldn't be. Now getting back on subject, designing a website without tables allows for greater accessibility across the entire spectrum of platforms, eg (cell-phones, speech-interpreters, braille printouts, "web TV", projection screens, and the conventional desktop or laptop monitor. Designing with tables can also make for ugly site maintenance and upgrading.

Originally Posted by Eternal_Howl

Die hard fans of CSS will say you should only use CSS, but in all reality, due to Internet Explorer not adhering to the webstandards, you can sometimes get vastly different results appearing in each browser. I was given some advice once, when working with css to test it in Firefox first and then look to fixing it up for IE.

Until IE version 6 and below yields their respective market share, this is something that developers need to consider.

I use CSS for main layout (like your three cols etc) and occasionally tables for smaller content (or things that it's easier to just do tables in rather than sitting at the screen for a week trying to figure it out. http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/perfect-3-column.htm is an interesting site that uses CSS in a manner that doesn't require any additional "mods/hacks" for IE6.
While testing in Fx is a nice suggestion, Fx and IE are not the only two browsers in the world. The boys over at Mozilla do a fairly good job at conforming to web standards with Fx, however it is always good to check out the website for a mac environment also, using Safari or Opera. There are a whole boat load of web browsers, as seen at How To Create

If you go for CSS for the core and then utilise tables occasionally on certain content, go forth - you are the designer of your own corner of the web

Just because you do not understand how to do something doesn't mean that you, the design/developer should just revert to tables to solve the problem. That is actually a bad attitude to have This website is one of a number of good resources that real people are willing to help out with debugging and problems that arise. The best part of it, its FREE!

[Twey]

http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/

[Eternal_Howl]

Since we don't all have access to other platforms and browsers, http://www.browsershots.org give you the ability to test on multiplatforms and browsers for compatibility. I have found this a really useful tool as have often found that while a layout may have looked fine and dandy in one browser was distorted or really messed up in others.

[Eternal_Howl]

Originally Posted by boogyman

Just because you do not understand how to do something doesn't mean that you, the design/developer should just revert to tables to solve the problem. That is actually a bad attitude to have This website is one of a number of good resources that real people are willing to help out with debugging and problems that arise. The best part of it, its FREE!

Yes, this is a great free resource, but sometimes questions do go unanswered. I've been waiting a week or more and mine's now buried so I will attack my query another way by trying another approach. However, in the interrum, what I can learn and reinforce for others learning reinforces for me that what I am learning is correct. I used to use tables all the time - and yes, they were designed for data (spreadsheet style) instead of being used for whole web site design. It's the easier way to go about it, and have been successful in most instances in removing tables from most of my layouts on my latest website - which is not the one I'm having issues with

Some are hard core - don't use tables, others say CSS is buggy because browsers aren't all the same, resolutions, screen sizes etc - and this is incredibly frustrating for all of us who DO want to use CSS for efficiency as much as anything else. Being able to use a separate style sheet and adjust a whole site with editing just one page makes web design a much nicer experience - if only IE would get in on the act. I've read the fors and againsts and am trying to use only css (unless tables are practical -spreadsheets on site etc) and html as the basic markup for a page.

[Twey]

others say CSS is buggy because browsers aren't all the same, resolutions, screen sizes etc

They miss the point. CSS can adapt and, in fact, is designed to adapt to these changes — far better than a table-based design can.

[thomas09]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for your valuable comments.

Your suggestions are quite useful for me. Thanks...

__________________
Thomas
Live life in South Carolina, USA