Music written by a charlatan

[molendijk]

Use this as a ringtone.
===
Arie Molendijk

[james438]

Or you can set the default ringtone to silent.

[molendijk]

You're right.
I merely wanted to express my frustration about an impostor.
Arie.

[james438]

I'm not much of a fan either.

[djr33]

Why would writing this in itself make someone an impostor/charlatan?
I agree that this 'song' is ridiculous (it reminds me of 'white on white' type paintings), but I don't see the extension of the logic. If this was written by Beethoven, wouldn't he still be a good composer but have (at least) one bad song?
So to me the judgment should be based on the rest of this person's work because clearly this song is irrelevant/useless/silence. I suppose if it's some sort of political statement that's fine in itself, but it doesn't give it any musical quality, of course. Perhaps it's a protest of some sort. Refusing to play doesn't make someone a bad musician. But in itself, it doesn't make them a good musician either. If this is the only song by the artist, then I'd agree with you. But does anyone take this song, in itself for no other reason, seriously?

[bernie1227]

list of silent musical compositions:

"4'33"" by John Cage
"0'00"" by John Cage
"Absolute Elsewhere" by Coil
"Are We Here? (Criminal Justice Bill? Mix)" by Orbital
"The Ballad of Richard Nixon" by John Denver
"(nothing)" by The Microphones
"The Best of Marcel Marceau" by Michael Viner
"Beware! The Funk is Everywhere" by Afrika Bambaataa
"Birthdeath Experience" by Whitehouse
"A Lot of Nothing" by Coheed and Cambria (Split into 11 sections ranging from 5–15 seconds in length)
"Magic Window" by Boards of Canada
"The Nutopian International Anthem" by John Lennon
"Two Minutes Silence" by John Lennon and Yoko Ono
"One Minute of Silence" by Soundgarden (Cover of John Lennon, with Yoko Ono's Minute cut out.)
"A One Minute Silence" by Mike Batt
"Pregnant Pause... Intermission" by Leila Bela
"Pure Digital Silence" by The Melvins
"(Silence)" by Ciccone Youth
"[Silence]" by Korn
"[Silence]" ("A suitable place for those with tired ears to pause and resume listening later") by Robert Wyatt
"There's a Riot Goin' On" by Sly Stone
"Three Bagatelles for David Tudor" by György Ligeti
"The Ten Coolest Things About New Jersey" by The Bloodhound Gang
"Thirty-second Silence" by Guster
"9-11-01" by Soulfly
"12:97:24:99" by Mudvayne
"Page 13" by Fantômas
"Path XII Inlustra Nigror" by Vesania
"15 Minutes" by Télépopmusik
"18 sekúndur fyrir sólarupprás"(18 seconds before sunrise) by Sigur Rós
"Non Musical Silence" by All-American Rejects (The album When The World Comes Down)
"Non-Musical Silence" by Marilyn Manson (The album Antichrist Superstar consists, in addition to the regular tracks, of 72 tracks of silence, each four seconds long, followed by a song called "Untitled")
"You Can Make Your Own Music" by Covenant (a 4 minute and 33 second silent track, in reference to John Cage's song "4′33″)
"Intentionally Left Blank" by James Holden (in The Idiots Are Winning (2006))
"The Sound of Free speech" by Crass
"Schweigenminute" by VNV Nation on Praise the Fallen (1999)
"Silence" by Brian Eno on Drums Between The Bells (2011)
"Silencio sepulcral" (Sepulchral Silence) by Soziedad Alkoholika
"The Misinterpretation of Silence and its Disastrous Consequences" by Type O Negative on Slow, Deep and Hard (1991)
"In Remembrance" by Pan.Thy.Monium on Khaooohs and Kon-Fus-Ion (1996)
"Rwanda" by Radio Boy (2001).
"42 Minutes of Silence" by Milosh on Quiet Time, with Milosh (2002)
"Anniversary Of World War III" by The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band on Volume 3: A Child's Guide to Good and Evil (1968)

The most famous of which being 4:33 by John Cage, which also happens to be the piece you have posted, and I must protest that John Cage is anything but a Charlatan, being an important figure in earlier avante-garde music.

[james438]

I do not consider this piece to be music based on philosophical and the definition of music, which involves some form of the manipulation of sound in a rhythmic fashion. Even the Japanese genre of music popularly known as "noise" has some sort of rhythm to it. It sounds like static, but if you listen carefully there is a very subtle background rhythm that demonstrates some remote form of organization to it. Not really my thing and I doubt anyone else's.

Anyway, I do not take this song seriously and it doesn't really deserve that much thought or criticism that we are putting into it. I would consider it pointless no matter who "wrote" it. White on white canvas can still be considered art, but the equivalent in this case would be nothing on nothing on no canvas.

The reason I do not consider this music on a philosophical basis is that the author intends for us to reevaluate our perception of music and look at the meaning again as a child. Mankind is not perfect and we are flawed sinful beings, and we can make errors in definitions of words, but certain words like the word music have timeless definitions and to redefine it to include no sound at all is a mistake and perverts the meaning of the word music.

[jscheuer1]

Did all those people really 'compose' all that nothing - or in some cases did others simply put up the vids and attribute them to the various folks and bands?

I'd love to see the copyright infringement cases on this.

I may as well get in on the action:

<script type="text/javascript">
// Script (c)2012 John Davenport Scheuer
// as first seen in http://www.dynamicdrive.com/forums/
// username: jscheuer1 - This Notice Must Remain for Legal Use
</script>

[molendijk]

... So to me the judgment should be based on the rest of this person's work because clearly this song is irrelevant/useless/silence...If this is the only song by the artist, then I'd agree with you. But does anyone take this song, in itself for no other reason, seriously?

Cage took it seriously. And so do some artists. Recently, there even was a public performance of mins33secs on Dutch television. And that was not ment to be a joke, see also below. As for the rest of Cage´s work, I am very sceptical about its musical qualities. I even wonder if Cage cared about music more than he did about his philosophical ideas (expressed through his 'music'). Why would anyone who takes music seriously describe it - as Cage did - as a purposeless game that serves to affirm life, not to create order out of chaos?
Note: One day he wrote 'music for prepared piano'. A prepared piano is a piano whose sound is altered by the insertion of various materials - metal, rubber, leather and paper - between the strings. That's not music, it's sound effects ...

... I must protest that John Cage is anything but a Charlatan, being an important figure in earlier avante-garde music.

Being an important figure during a certain period does not prove that someone was an important artist. Kalkbrenner (romantic era) was highly esteemed in his days, but it's obvious now that he is nothing compared to Chopin, Schumann, and others.

White on white canvas can still be considered art...

I'm not so sure about that.

...Certain words like the word music have timeless definitions and to redefine it to include no sound at all is a mistake and perverts the meaning of the word music.

I completely agree.
====
I'd also like to add the following in order to make myself more clear:
Indeterminacy in music
Cage sought after indeterminacy in music. Influenced by Eastern philosophy and Zen Buddhism, he removed intent from his music and created so-called aleatory music: music controlled by nothing but good luck. In my opinion, this makes him a mimic of natural sounds - of any UNstructured sound- rather than a composer. Creating aleatory music is denying the fact that music is more than just sound or absense of sound. It's more than just the expression of philosophical ideas. Removing intention allows for any accident to be deemed a work of art.

Nirwana
After viewing the all-white paintings of Robert Rauschenberg, John Cage felt he had the right to compose his most famous piece: 4mins33secs. This makes him a seeker for nirwana, not a creator of music.

4mins33secs is not a joke
4mins33secs is not at all meant to be a joke. It is the work that John Cage has said is his personal favorite. The debut of it was played in 1952 by David Tudor. It consisted of the pianist entering the stage, seating himself at the piano, and proceeding to play nothing for four minutes and thirty-three seconds.

4mins33secs is not a work of art either
Why consider 4mins33secs a work of art?
Advocates of 4mins33secs have pointed to the fact that it generated much heated discussion, and that therefore, it is shown to be valid. This is ridiculous. Lots of things can provoke a debate (such as the President of the United States entering a shop with no clothes on) that we would not consider art.
Advocates of 4mins33secs have argued that it is clearly a powerful work of art, in that audiences strongly react to it. This, again, is a ridiculous argument. My strong reaction to me stepping in a pile of dog excrement doesn't indicate that the dog's feces are a powerful work of art.

It took him 5 years!
Cage once stated that the silent piece was very difficult for him to write, and that it took him five years of work. This was said without irony. Would you believe that? Anyways, just because something is difficult for someone to create it does not follow that the creation is a work of art.

Cage's intention-which-is-not-an-intention
Cage’s intention (which in fact cannot be an intention since his music is aleatory) was for the audience to become aware of the noises they would usually disregard, like an occasional cough or sneeze. These sounds are his music. So why not enter the concert hall prepared with a hi-fi set, and then press 'play', turn up the volume and treat everyone with really good music? Cage will have his indeterminacy in music, while the audience will have a good performance of, say, THIS.
Arie.

[james438]

As far as the example of white paint on white paint on a canvas I wanted to give an example of something that was barely considered art, but still could be considered art. With white on white you can see different brush strokes and the different shades of white used. I was exploring one of the limits of the definition to help frame what it is and isn't. I could still easily be persuaded that white paint on white paint on an otherwise white canvas is never art.

Creating aleatory music is denying the fact that music is more than just sound or absence of sound. It's more than just the expression of philosophical ideas.

Yep.

I'd love to see the copyright infringement cases on this.

Heh, I hadn't thought of that

I'd say John Cage was just getting a bit loopy when he "wrote" this. Even the best of artists can go crazy sometimes. It's best to take the good and throw out the bad. John Cage reminds us (although this was not his intent) what music really is.