custom CMS??

[sketch]

Hey guys, Im after some easy way to update HTML pages, without using a full blown CMS.
The client only needs to add/remove service agents from a few pages. Is there a easy straight-forward way to insert/remove data into a HTML page?

I had the idea of using XML, but that requires the client to upload files to the server....the client knows next to nothing about computers....

the easiest way I can think of is to create a template which the client can access via a browser, enter the service agent information, and click Add/Remove....but my PHP skills aren't this advanced.

Any help would be appreciated...or if anyone has other ideas please let me know. Just keep in mind the client still takes about 2mins to type "Hello" on a keyboard

[djr33]

A custom CMS will be difficult* to create. That's just a fact, and if you're not familiar with building this type of thing (at least on a smaller scale) then existing software is my recommendation. Of course it's possible to build your own if you want.
(*Not especially difficult for an experienced designer, depending on complexity, but difficult for an inexperienced designer.)

Using XML or any other type of flat file (usually just stored in .txt files, whatever the format of the actual data, such as CVS, plain text, or even XML) will be difficult to manage if the system gets too big. It's possible to do this, but I'd recommend against it unless:
1) You have a constant number of aspects that will change (so you will launch the website with existing text files for all aspects that are changable and give the final user the ability to edit them)
2) The integration is fairly straightforward.
You could do that by letting the user edit the text files directly (via FTP probably) or a custom-built PHP interface for this-- note that this will be harder than including the data into the pages.
XML probably won't help you too much especially if it needs to be edited often or referred to in parts-- so I'd recommend just plain text if possible.


The better solution would be to use a database and that would allow more customization and flexibility (such as later modifications/additions to the system). A database is a little harder to use in the first place and a little harder to set up, but it will in the end be less work because it is efficient and will be less work to get the details right than using flat files. For a good tutorial and a place to start, look at (starting with the earliest articles): http://php-mysql-tutorial.com

This is a fairly common procedure with PHP and MySQL and may or may not be considered a "CMS" depending on complexity. There should be plenty of information available. The basic idea is simple: store information in the database (using an INSERT query), then retrieve it later (using a SELECT query) and display it as needed. The details will be more complex, but taking it step by step will help.


Finally, if you don't want to deal with all of this, one of the easiest methods will be to use an existing very simple CMS. I suggest the following by one of the users here:
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=55003
http://fast-edit.co.uk/


Generally speaking you'll need to build it yourself if you want anything less complicated (and flexible) than that.

There are some other similar options though I don't think any are simpler. But wordpress or joomla may be an option if you can explain how to use them to your client. If they don't deal with any of the complex options and stick to the basics that may not be too bad. In fact, with some of the more complicated CMS systems you may find that you can actually create a limited-permissions user so that they can only edit exactly what you want. I don't have any specific knowledge of that though.

[sketch]

hey djr33, thanx for your reply.

I have offered the client a database, and explained that it would take time to populate it and set it up, the main issue here is that he needs the site up and running in a few days, and wants to be able to add/remove some service agents.
Because its only the service agents, this is why im looking into a simpler way instead of using a database. Also like i mentioned, he doesnt know anything about computers/internet so im hoping to make it as easy as possible.

I can imagine how much work goes into a CMS, but what im hoping for is something much much smaller....possibly using _POST method to submit text input from a form, capturing the variables and PRINT them in a page.

the only pieces of information that would be collected are:
Name:
Company:
Address:
Phone No:
Email:
basically just name and contact details....
...i can see this being possible, tho I may be missing some important piece of detail here that would make this a bad or useless idea... any thoughts?

[djr33]

Databases are simple. Learning to use them and initially configuring everything can be complex, but in the end it will probably be the easiest option. There's no reason you can't use a database for a small job. Then you can create a PHP interface that will store information into the database and also retrieve it and display it on the page.


The process you have described contains some of the parts needed to build this, but it's missing some major crucial steps, especially how any of the information will be stored-- probably in a database or in "flat" text files, but text files don't give you the freedom that a database does and if your client needs to add/delete them, it will really be easier if you use a database. That's what they're designed for.


$_POST data will be available after submitting a form. But then you need to store it somewhere. It won't randomly be there the next time you load the page or for any other users. In PHP the most common method of displaying text is echo although print also exists.

Honestly and I really don't mean this to sound discouraging, it sounds to me like you just don't have the background in PHP for building this on a deadline to be efficient. You should look into hiring someone who is experienced if you do need a custom system for this.



The most important point is that for almost every programmer who first uses databases, they seem hard to work with and the first instinct is to avoid them, especially when a deadline is involved. And it's true that they can be slow to get going, but finding a faster solution, especially in the long run, is unlikely when you need to have rapid access to the data to display, change and delete it.

[sketch]

hahaha, its not discouraging at all, like I mentioned before im not very advanced in php.
I've been using it for simple things, and even worked with database too. Im confident enough to use a database, which is why I suggested it in the first place, but the issue here is that the client is in a real hurry to get this done, and the site has alot of content in it.

I think for now i'll just give him a static page...and give him a template for adding his own service agents.

I didnt think about saving the content on the server, I meant to use php to edit the actual HTML file, not to just call variables when loaded.
I know I read about this somewhere, but have no idea where.

Anyway, thanx alot for your help. Much appreciated.

[djr33]

Editing the text of the HTML file would be complicated (you'd need to find the location and split it) and dangerous-- if something goes wrong, your page will be lost. It would be easier to use a database. I promise: this is what databases are designed for.

Either way, you'll need to retrieve the POST data then save it somewhere. Then it can load on the page (either directly or as retrieved by PHP).


And you're right: this is difficult. Your client needs to understand that. I can't suggest the best way to explain it, but if he has unrealistic expectations then you have to do your best to correct them or he'll end up disappointed with your "slow" work. I hope he'll understand. Certainly as a preliminary version you could give him a static page until you complete a dynamic version to replace it. That might be what is needed here.
If I were in your position, I might offer editing the page when he has updates until you find a better solution. Unless there are a lot of items to add, this might be an easy way to temporarily fix the problem.

[sketch]

Yeah a static page is a temporary solution, and would get done in time. I've explained things to him as best i could, he doesn't completely understand the amount of work that goes into a website, also, he isnt paying enough to make both a static for now and proper dynamic afterwards....abit of a cheapskate actually.

you're a freelancer, im sure you've had clients like this before.

There will be constant updates to the service agents mainly, and I will be doing them for the time being, but he has to learn. Its not really all that difficult, I just hope he can get the grasp of it.
Its only simple changes, and mainly only to one part of the site....otherwise I would have gone Joomla! from the beginning.

[mburt]

I use a template system (which I created) for all of my clients, and of course I do the initial work, but if they want to update a page they don't have to fool with the menu, banner, headers, css, etc. It's convenient and lightweight (because it doesn't involve manipulating files with PHP), and eases the process of managing a website.

But it's not a CMS - that's the key difference. My clients just edit the pages manually (although editing is really easy), and all the back-end work is already done.

If you'd like to ask me more about it, just send me an inbox.

[sketch]

Hey mburt, your system sounds interesting, im always open to new ideas.
Im guessing this would have some guidelines to follow from the very beginning of building the site?
If that's so, then it probably wouldnt do me much good now for this client, as I've just about finished the initial template.