Can't position border margin.

[Naild]

http://naildpages.wtcsites.com/

Hello folks,

For some strange reason I can't seem to be able to bring a border down 5px from a <h1> tag in FireFox. The page looks perfect in Internet Explorer. Tried using CSS and entering......

border-bottom-margin: 5px;

But it wouldn't work. Does anyone have any suggestions? Any at all would be appreciated, as it is the LAST thing I need to do to the site. (thank god!)


http://naildpages.wtcsites.com/

[jscheuer1]

As far as I know there is no:

border-bottom-margin

property. From testing here, it looks like the height declaration is being ignored by IE and is the problem in FF:

h1 {
font-family: times new roman;
font-size: 13px; 
color: #5F7C78; 
text-align: left; 
letter-spacing: 1px; height: 4px; 
text-transform: uppercase;
font-weight: bold;
border-bottom: 1px solid #5F7C78;
margin: 2px;
}

4px is much too short for such an element anyway. Just get rid of it altogether. If that causes some odd problem in IE, make it an IE only declaration but, I doubt that will be needed.

[Naild]

Hey thanx alot John!! It worked perfect, as does all your advice!

I hate FireFox. It's such a pain having to make a web page look right using that browser.

[mwinter]

I hate FireFox. It's such a pain having to make a web page look right using that browser.

I'm sorry, but you need to realise that it's your fault that it doesn't look right, not that of Firefox.

Looking at your site, there are problems with both the markup and CSS. You are in no position to criticise a generally well-developed browser. If you want further evidence of this, look at the site using Opera.

Mike

[Naild]

Well, I just downloaded Opera to see what you were talking about, and it doesn't look any different than I.E.

FireFox still stinks. I'm allowed to have an opinion.

Perhaps you are unaware I've been working on the site today, and have to rename my CSS file to edit it. You probably caught me while I was editing the CSS.

[jscheuer1]

I found FF a royal pain in the (can I say that word in these forums?), at first. Now that I like to code for IE6, FF1.0.7 and Opera8.51, depending upon my mood, I either find all three to be a pain or, in my better moments I revel in the challenge. I know I am still missing out on this or that obscure (mostly dying) browser (not to mention the Mac and 'nix browsers) so I try to slip in things that will allow the code to degrade gracefully if not supported, this is my new thing and I have a lot to learn about it. It really is up to you what you want to code for. IE6 is currently a safe bet due to its installed base. FF is really a bit of a necessity due to its up and coming status. Opera is nice because, if it will run in Opera, that covers quite a few others, generally.

If you consider that before Mosaic (I think that was the first 'real' browser), there really was no way to surf the net without a good command of Unix, any browser is a modern miracle. Our hats must go off to their programmers. Additionally, if we want our content to be truly accessible, we need to code for whatever is out there, including PDA's, cell phones and Web TV.

That is what is so attractive about standards. There are no real* standards yet but, there will never be if folks don't try to write for the ones we do have and make it work in browsers that do not use them too well. Eventually there will be standards that, if adhered to, will guarantee that your content is universally accessible. It is only by coding to the current ones that we will find their flaws so that they can be corrected, updated.

Or so goes that line of thinking. I figure things will always be changing. I assume politics, with a small p, will always influence what the standards are and that there will always be new devices that buck them as well as established browsers that flaunt them. That won't stop me from learning ways to get the content out there to the widest possible audience though. But, you will forgive me if I pause in this quest occasionally to get some work done.

* By real, I mean standards that can be written to without testing, in full confidence that all user interfaces will be able to access the content written in them.

[Naild]

Good post John. I agree with much of what you said.

Yes, FF is a pain, but like you said it's challenging. I wasn't downing the programmer, just venting a little after struggling with the CSS. There are many features of FF I find quite attractive really. Like being able to edit the CSS 'on the fly'.......and so on. FireFox is growing in popularity so it's important for us to be able to script for it. There are many plug in's, but I haven't downloaded any so my version is 'raw' (for lack of a better word). This way I know what people are viewing when they come to a site I've designed, and have a 'fresh install' of FF.

Anyway, I've got work to do as well. LOL

[mwinter]

Well, I just downloaded Opera to see what you were talking about, and it doesn't look any different than I.E.

Screenshot

The advertisments change, so Google's set may not have appeared when you looked. In that state, your site is navigable. Moreover, your site only renders correctly because browsers generously use broken behaviour when 'Quirks' mode is used.

Does your host know that you're attempting to hide their adverts? I'm pretty sure that's grounds for termination of your account. You may want to rethink that decision.

FireFox still stinks. I'm allowed to have an opinion.

About it's interface? It's features? Sure. About how it renders your broken markup? Not in the slightest.

You probably caught me while I was editing the CSS.

Makes no difference.

Despite my posts, I want to make it clear that I'm not out to belittle you or your efforts. However, it does you no good to think that any problems you encountered were the doing of others.

Mike