The iframe is back

**molendijk** · 01-25-2011, 03:44 PM

The iframe is back (HTML5). After all the trouble I had finding a proper replacement for it (HTML4 strict).
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Arie Molendijk.

**jscheuer1** · 01-25-2011, 07:24 PM

Yeah, HTML 5 is pretty cool. I'm doing all my new work in it. A lot of things have been relaxed. If I didn't know better, well I don't know better. I'm not sure why let's say - In any case HTML 5 while preserving a lot of good stuff from HTML 4.01 and XHTML 1.0 has done a number of things to allow stuff browsers allow anyway. It even allows some things some browsers don't, at least not when scripting is combined with what used to be non-standard markup. But there are still some seemingly arbitrary 'no-no's for certain things, I think. But I can't think of anything off hand. Well stuff like width and height for elements that ordinarily can take them. Attributes are fairly limited - use css style instead. Sometimes though there is no workable alternative in style, though it could be argued to be "the browser's fault". I was never really all that happy with that explanation.

**molendijk** · 01-25-2011, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by jscheuer1

Yeah, HTML 5 is pretty cool. I'm doing all my new work in it.

No problems with IE7?
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Arie.

**jscheuer1** · 01-26-2011, 01:51 AM

I've not encountered any problems in HTML 5 as regards outdated IE versions that are not also problems in those browsers for other DOCTYPES that invoke standards.

Do you have something specific in mind?

**traq** · 01-26-2011, 05:16 AM

The only "real" issue I have in IE is the fact that you need to use javascript to trick IE into applying css to your html5 elements.

I view javascript as something that should have a fallback (or be "okay" without); not something that can be used as a fallback.

**jscheuer1** · 01-26-2011, 06:12 AM

Which HTML 5 elements are you talking about? Something non-standard in other DOCTYPES?

**molendijk** · 01-26-2011, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by jscheuer1

I've not encountered any problems in HTML 5 as regards outdated IE versions that are not also problems in those browsers for other DOCTYPES that invoke standards.

That's good news.

Originally Posted by jscheuer1

Do you have something specific in mind?

No, just a general question.

Thanks,
Arie.

**molendijk** · 01-26-2011, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by jscheuer1

I've not encountered any problems in HTML 5 as regards outdated IE versions that are not also problems in those browsers for other DOCTYPES that invoke standards.

As far as I remember, IE7 accepts the frameborder attribute with a standard transitional doctype. It does not accept it with the HTML5 doctype. And there's no way to remove the frameborder. (But I hope I'm wrong).
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Arie.

**jscheuer1** · 01-26-2011, 02:47 PM

Well, that's one thing (the one thing really, though there could be others) I was thinking about when I said:

Attributes are fairly limited - use css style instead. Sometimes though there is no workable alternative in style, though it could be argued to be "the browser's fault". I was never really all that happy with that explanation.

So, if you're saying you must have a valid document in HTML 5 and have it look as desired in outdated browsers, in the case of IE and a look of frameborder other than 1 (1 is the default) that will require clever use of IE conditional comments, yes. I'm not sure if that's even worked out in IE 9, let alone IE 8, which does work out a number of issues from 7, which worked out a number of issues from 6, etc. The versions seem to be coming hot and heavy from MS. Let's hope they soon "get it right" and folks adopt it.

Interestingly IE 6 support which was recently so important, is no longer considered so, at least not by many. That's because its use is plummeting. The same is beginning to happen with 7. And if 9 comes out, believe me - it's so much better, 8 will probably die a quick death as well.

The great thing about versions 7, 8, and 9 are that they all can run well on the same computer (not at the same time, but if a computer can run any of them, it can run any one of the others), they are really sub versions (MS gave up issuing sub versions at IE 6), except 9 is a bit more of a radical departure, at least as far as look and feel goes, but I suspect it is otherwise very similar to 7 and 8, just better css support and more features. I think they've sped it up (once it's loaded) a bit too. I'm no expert on 9 or its programmatical differences though yet.

Getting back to the issue of differences in these outdated browsers. Another area where this (standards compliance in a new DOCTYPE) often throws presentational junkies into a hissy fit is the appearance of form elements.

Suffice it to say that the precise rendering of your page should not depend upon nor be so important that these slight variations can cause you problems.