Soviet-hope

[molendijk]

Stalin made a very wrong use of the communist ideal. But if you view it as it was intended to be, it is to be preferred to the Western egoistic way (money, money, money). So let's listen to this.

Arie.

[Snookerman]

NO thank you!

[molendijk]

NO thank you!

I said: 'as it was INTENDED to be'. In all other respects, I agree with your NO.
===
Arie

[codeexploiter]

It seems that the concept is good but the execution is always wrong. History says it all.

[Snookerman]

So let's listen to this.

You talk about the intentions of communism and then link to a propaganda video full of lies and deceit.

it is to be preferred to the Western egoistic way

Why? Did you live in both systems? This is how it always starts, some genius gets the idea that the ideal is good and then it ends with millions and millions of people dead. You would think opening a history book would prove how wrong communism is. So again:

NO thank you!

[molendijk]

You talk about the intentions of communism and then link to a propaganda video full of lies and deceit.Why?

I linked to the film because I like the music. By the way: propaganda is everywhere, in each system. Singing the national hymn before having a political meeting, before starting the day at school etc. is propaganda too.

This is how it always starts, some genius gets the idea that the ideal is good and then it ends with millions and millions of people dead. You would think opening a history book would prove how wrong communism is. So again:
NO thank you!

In itself, communism is not wrong. The concept is even more human than the capitalistic one. In fact, it has much in common with early christianity. But it attracted the wrong people. Here again: I'm against the execution of the idea, not against the idea itself.
(In the same way, I'm not against the concept of christianity, but I DO oppose to its medieval execution (cruisades and killing non-believers)).
===
Arie.

[Medyman]

Snookerman, there are huge differences between theory and practice. As an academic doctrine, the communist philosophy is more egalitarian than most. Of course, human nature being what it is (and the propensity of totalitarian regimes to adopt portions of the communist manifesto), it is destined to fail as a form of government.

[Twey]

You would think opening a history book would prove how wrong communism is.

Most of the systems people usually cite when attempting to disprove communism are states like the Soviet Union and Maoist China. However, these are in fact not communist: any state with a single leader is entirely anti-communist in its ways — really, closer to dictatorships. Communism has never come to fruition in a large state: elements of capitalism survive, as they have done for centuries, and thereby corrupt the system in the delicate transitional point into one of the monstrosities to which you allude. Communism has been employed successfully in small communities in which everybody is dedicated to preserving it, but the habits of capitalism (greed for wealth, association of wealth with power, that a person's worth is judged by what he or she has rather than what he or she does) are very hard to shake, and experiments in that direction have so far been unsuccessful — although not in quite such a horrific way as seem to think: most countries living under these failed states hardly noticed the difference, and by and large lived perfectly normal (by capitalist standards) lives. I would wager that capitalism has caused many more deaths over the years than the attempts at communism ever did: look at the people in Africa starving while first-world farmers let food rot in their storehouses rather than flood the market, for example. I once heard it quoted that if all that excess were sent to third-world countries, there would be no hunger there. Moreover, the damage that you lay at the feet of communism is not specific to communism at all, but would occur in any forceful revolution; it doesn't immediately render the new system bad, but rather merely illustrates the lengths to which people will attempt to resist major change (and the equal lengths to which the resisted will go to propagate it).

[molendijk]

Snookerman, just for the sake of clarity: a prominent contemporary example of communism is the kibbutz system in Israel; 'kibbutzniks' practice a form of communism.
===
Arie.

[molendijk]

Well, I found the same beautiful music in another political setting. I still DO like the music, which is non-religiously religious (I like paradoxes). Good music is supposed to eliminate prejudice, right? (Like 'West=good, East=bad').
===
Arie.