freelance

[stevedc]

this has nothing to do with code, so I assume I'm in the right place. So I just finishing up my BFA In Digital Media Design at the Corcoran College or Art and Design in D.C. I'm not ready to go full time with a company and have actually turned two jobs down. I'm going to give freelancing a try just for the summer since I already have several clients that will pay the bills. However, getting curious I've started to look at some popular job boards such as oDesk and Elance. There is a nice list of them on Dustin Brewers blog here. After browsing through both sites for a few hours I've realized how much outsourcing is really happening. A handful of these jobs are being taken from India, Russia, Ukraine etc. etc. Clearly this is nothing new, but I'm just wondering if anyone has any thoughts or other boards that aren't being dominated by "CSS/HTML designer $10/h - dubai - IN" or "Flash web design - $10/h". I'm not trying to be offensive in any way as I have no real developed thoughts on this yet, but just wondering...

~ Regards
Steve

[Medyman]

Hey Steve,

I hear ya man. I've done (and still do) a fair amount of freelancing. The board I've used most often is getafreelancer.com. But it's no different than the others. There are thousands of developers who are just trying to make some money on the side so they charge insanely low amounts. Honestly, I think all of these boards are a very big reason why most people (especially small-time clients or first-time website owners) have little to no respect for our profession.

I'll admit that I've done my fair share of $400 - $500 websites when I first started. But once I had a decent portfolio, I quickly raised my prices. Nowadays, I still use some freelancer job boards, but only file bids on projects with a respectable budget. If the budget range is right for that job, that usually signifies that the client is in-tune with the web design/development world and understands the real costs and is more likely to value quality over savings.

That probably doesn't help you much, does it? In any case, I haven't come across any job board that didn't have those kinds of developers swarming around. The most important thing though, is not to get caught in the caught of doing speculative work. It's the single worst thing that you an do as a freelancer IMO.

[rangana]

For real. $400-$500, that's huge. BTW, what is the usual rate per hour for a web designer? I just recently exposed myself in this field last Jan.

[Medyman]

For real. $400-$500, that's huge. BTW, what is the usual rate per hour for a web designer? I just recently exposed myself in this field last Jan.

I'd hardly say it's huge. But I guess it's relative to everyone's income. From the perspective of running a web firm with 6 employees, $500 means I'm in the negative (by a lot).

We don't really do hourly rates for building websites, because I think that hinders quality. If a client is only willing to pay for 4 hours but it really would take you 6 to do an amazing job, you're forced to cut corners. I wouldn't be comfortable with offering sub-standard work, so we generally do flat rates -- $xxx for the entire thing.

But if a client needs some maintenance, a few things changed here and there than we do do hourly rates. Our hourly rate is $100/hr. As far as I'm aware, that's about the industry average.

[rangana]

That's a lot than my expected answer of an hourly rate. Really no idea, whatever the first bid, then I accept.

Poor standard should I say, but I strive for quality, anyways, I'm enjoying (as of now).

[Medyman]

Poor standard should I say, but I strive for quality, anyways, I'm enjoying (as of now).

That's good. But you should realize the value of the services you're providing. You're probably undervaluing yourself. Right now it might seem like money in you r pocket, but later on you'll realize that you've locked yourself in the hole.

Any skilled freelancer won't have to go on those boards for long. If you do a good job, chances are that other projects will be referred to you from your past clients. Now, if you're charging that past client a low price, the person they refer will want the same thing. And so on and so on... So before you know it, you're doing a whole lot of work and not being paid enough for your troubles.

If you have a decent portfolio built up, start bidding a little higher. People will pay for quality, trust me!

[rangana]

If you have a decent portfolio build up, start bidding a little higher. People will pay for quality, trust me!

I am trusting you. Yoda must have been a good hangout ain't it

[chechu]

For real. $400-$500, that's huge.

I am honestly surprised of this amazingly low price.
In Belgium, the country I mostly work with, a decent website will cost you about 1500 euros (1100 US dollars ?) for ten pages, no email form, no special scripts or effects. Why do you think I always come up with these weird questions on this forum ? Because asking a pro here costs you too much.
Example: this script

<?php
if ($_POST["action"] == "send"){
if ($_POST[naam] != " je naam" and $_POST[naam] != "" and $_POST[email] != " je e-mail adres" and $_POST[email] != "" and $_POST[bericht] != "") { 
mail ("info@site.com", "via site", 
"
Naam: ".$_POST['naam']."
E-mail: ".$_POST['email']."
Bericht: ".$_POST['bericht']."
",
"From: ".$_POST['naam']." <".$_POST['email'].">");
$subject = "je bericht aan Ceci Casariego"; 
$msg = "
Dit is een automatisch verzonden mail. Gelieve niet te antwoorden.
Beste $_POST[naam],
Bedankt voor je bericht aan Ceci.
Ze zal je zo snel mogelijk beantwoorden
Dit was je bericht:
$_POST[bericht] 
";  
mail($_POST[email], $subject, $msg); 
echo 'Bedankt.<br><br>Je bericht is verzonden, <br>en je zult een bevestiging ontvangen. <br><br>&nbsp;<br><br>';
}
else{
echo 'Gelieve alle velden in te vullen<br><br>Je naam, email adres en bericht<br> zijn verplichte velden.<br><br><a href="contactNL.html"><font color="#565656;">[graag opnieuw]</font></a><br><br>&nbsp;<br>';
}
}
?>

Would cost about 250 euros. Only that !!

Don't let me say now that you should all move to Belgium

[Medyman]

I am honestly surprised of this amazingly low price.

I agree...it was an amazingly low price. But at the time, I was a college student. It was a side-thing. I needed to build a portfolio. Most of my clients were fellow college students. I didn't know any better

That's no way close to what I charge now, though.

[chechu]

You charge more than 1500 euros for ten pages, no flash, no scripts, no whatever special ?
If so, I looooooove this forum