Astral projection possible for the blind?

[BLiZZaRD]

Blind people (considering blind = from birth, have never had a visual image) dream. It is proven they dream, just without the visual images.

Astral Projection is a deep sleep out-of-body experience, where the spiritual or essence of the body travels to another plane of existence (unfounded, but widely thought to be possible). This experience is "founded" by lucid and vivid dreams.

So the question is, can blind people experience astral projection (considering that AP is possible)?

[Twey]

Of course. What makes you think that visual dreams are necessary? It's not quite a visual experience (but then neither are dreams, at least in my experience).

(considering that AP is possible)

I think you meant "assuming." "Considering" suggests that it's definitely true and thought should be given to such when constructing an argument; "assuming" means that it may or may not be true, but for the sake of the argument we should think as if it is true.

[djr33]

Dreams are a way for the unconscious mind to express lingering thoughts, and represent things through common, but usually extreme or supernatural, means.

Just because someone is asleep, they don't gain the ability to understand seeing things, just like we don't dream in Chinese, and we don't dream about a small town in Russia [accurately].

They might in fact have a dream about sight, but it would likely be as close a representation as possible, with a sort of mixing of the other senses or even approximation-- some blind people can sense light, so they might dream of an amazing blur of light and dark, which, to us, would be nothing more than a boring gradient, but it could, in the understanding supposed in the dream, be a very clear picture of the world.

Dreams are uncertain and unfinished-- only your thoughts exist, and they don't always make sense. If you were to somehow record it, and "turn around", there'd probably be a large gap back there. Dreams are like a movie played by your mind-- they entertain and captivate, but aren't real, and flaws in them are expected. Suddenly, you can fly, and what's more-- you aren't surprised. OR, you are, because it's frequently about the edge of reality, not something outside reality.

So, again, it would be like you having a dream about being able to speak Chinese, or having been to the moon, or, a dream about suffocation if you've never experienced it.

It's impossible to understand sight without actually seeing it, beyond a theoretical understanding of light rays hitting a receptor, etc.


Now, if you want to argue that a vision is given to them by some greater force, or they visit some plane of enlightenment like in Beverly Hills Ninja [ok, sorry for the sarcastic example ], I can't stop you there, or claim they don't "see".

[BLiZZaRD]

Yes, sorry Twey I did mean assuming. Sorry for that.

But, Daniel, I have personally dreamt in Chinese. I spoke it, understood it, and apparently in the dream I was Chinese. I KNOW I have heard Chinese before, but I couldn't tell you if you were speaking Chinese, or Japanese, or Korean today. I can't tell them apart. I can only say I am almost positive I have heard it.

Now, the theory of AP is that one of "tale-tale" signs of it is the extreme lucidity and vibrant colors and true to touch 3-d visuals. You can dream you are in China, and then according to AP enthusiasts, when your AP you are IN China and there is an extreme difference in the "Dream"

From the books I have read about it it is 99% visual, and also happens 98+% during sleep (read: dreaming) or in meditation (read:eyes closed). So if blind people do not see in their dreams, can they say they have experienced AP? and if so, did they?

[Twey]

I believe the prominent theory of AP is that the information is not presented through the senses but translated by the mind into sensory data. As such, I see no reason why a blind person could not experience an OOBE; they may experience it through touch, taste, smell and sound, or they may experience it through vision or some other sense (as in the "360° vision" commonly experienced, a new "sense" might be used with which the person has no "real-life" familiarity).

[djr33]

I spoke it, understood it, and apparently in the dream I was Chinese.

Sure, but I'm confident you weren't ACTUALLY speaking proper Chinese. It was sounds that you and all of your created co-inhabitants of the subconscious could understand and speak, and it was entirely convincing because you believed it, but it wasn't actually Chinese.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that a blind person had a dream where they could see, but the representation of sight wouldn't be real, just as the sensations of flying aren't real, or the physics.

[Twey]

We're not talking about dreams, we're talking about astral projection, with the assumption that it exists.

[jscheuer1]

Assuming AP is a leap. At that point, many things are possible. We are now beyond the realm of ordinary logic. If nothing else, it could be as a blind person's dream is.

[BLiZZaRD]

Assuming AP is a leap.

LOL.. no pun intended I assume hahahahahahaa

[jscheuer1]

As much as I would love to claim credit for that one, sometimes my best puns are unintended. Nice catch!

Anyways, have you ever had an AP experience?