Help! A beginner and tired of read the help section

[ali]

Hi!! Wow, there seems to be alot of knowledgable people in here. It will be very much appreciated!
I am trying to get a website designed. First, I tried using Websitetonight because it said it would be easy and quick..haha. Then, I started looking into ipowerweb and a few others. They have all told me that what I want to can be done with their stuff and I no longer believe them. So, I am leaving my last ditch effort to all of you helpful people!

I am trying to create a website where people can read ads placed by users. The users need to register before they can post an ad. For example craigslist or something similar. My problem is that I can't find or don't know the name of what i need to put on my page to create a list where you can click on it to hyperlink to the detailed area. I guess u could say it would be kind of like ebay or a classifieds ad site, but a smaller scale...i just want people to post ads. Is this called a form?
Do I use osCommerce? phpBB? or any of the others? does this have a specific name?

Also, after looking around, I believe I can find the codes or information for this at this site. What is it called?

Then, ..please remember I said I was somewhat new at this...what's the difference between html and asp....is one better thanthe other?

Finally, I was thinking about purchasing a full site design package where I just need to insert my info and try to add the "ad" section. Any comments or website suggestions?
Am I totally lost?
Thank you,
Alicia

[djr33]

welcome to the site.

Lots of questions, so I'll try to cover them all.

I'm not sure what osCommerce is, but I don't think it would really fit, unless you're doing a business site. Most eCommerce setups are about selling products... basically an online store.
phpBB is a bulletin board, like this one. There are many different packages for bulletin boards, but that isn't really what you want, either.
However, both are kinda similar.
Craig's List has similar properties of both, but doesn't really match.
There is no specific name for what you want, I wouldn't think, but you can certainly create it.

Remember, all of the internet is based on code. There really aren't any specific rules for how you must do something, just that the code gets you there. Of course there are plenty of limits on how code (and various languages of code) can work, but that's just what you'll need to figure out.

HTML is hypertext markup language. It's not really programming, but something like it.
Markup is text that has some more code to it to make it do stuff.
Just like when posting here, you can type [b]bold[/b] to make bold, in html you can use <b>bold</b>.
Tags, as they are called, are added to the text to mark specific things that should happen. <p> for a paragraph, <br> for a line break.
HTML is very simple in that it just is a set of rules with text around these rules that are then displayed very precisely.
A WYSIWYG editor, which stands for what you see is what you get, can write html for you. However, this gets messy and it's usually cleaner if you write it by hand. That's hard, though, so using a WYSIWYG editor is ok, but ONLY if you keep an eye on the code it spits out. Start learning, and you'll find it isn't all that difficult, once you start getting to know what's going on.

CSS means cascading style sheets. These are used with html to set how stuff looks. You use a stylesheet (an external file, or embeded in the html text) to define things. For example:
background-color:blue;

Javascript is more toward programming, but not quite... it falls under scripting.
This is a CLIENT SIDE language, because it works within the browser. The server sends the html, which has javascript in it, and then does stuff with it.
Javascript is interactive and can change once a page has loaded.

PHP, ASP, and other SERVER SIDE scripts:
These are programming. Like javascript, they add features to your webpage, but being server side makes them work differently. The server parses (interprets/renders) the scripting, then outputs text to the user. So, the server interprets this, not the browser. In fact, the browser never gets the server side code, just what it outputs.
That's why you may need javascript and a server side language. The javascript will interact with the user, and the server side language will interact with the server. Server side languages (unlike javascript) will work with databases, receiving forms, and storing files on the server.

Personally, I like PHP (Hypertext Pre-Processor), but it's up to you. In your case, I'd suggest PHP, but you could use ASP too. It's made by Microsoft, unlike PHP which is open source. ASP will also have more limited support, especially here, since there are a lot of people that use PHP on this forum, and around the web. (For one thing because it's free, unlike ASP, though you might get free access to ASP, on a server.)

There are some other things, too, but for now that should give you an overview.

Note that your question of which is better can't be answered, since most languages don't do the same thing. You need HTML to present a page, and you need javascript to interact with the user. It's like apples and oranges, as the cliche goes.

For your project specifically:
You will need HTML for the pages, absolutely.
You may need CSS for presentation (a very good idea).
You may need javascript for interactive elements (might be nice, though not required, but worth looking into).
You will need a server side language to store the data, create user accounts, add security, etc.


Building a website like Craig's list is a big job. It's not impossible, but you will need to learn a lot. So... the question is whether you're interested in the web design, or if you'd rather just pay someone to do it. You should be able to find someone (perhaps on Craig's list itself, ironically) who could do this.


In many ways, things like "full site design packages" are a rip off because they take advantage of people like you (no offense intended) who are new and don't really know how this stuff works. They hand you a template that was easy to create, give you a good sounding, but fairly simple site, and then you think it's cool.
But... with some work, you could do better than that, probably.


Also, for such a site, this isn't just a website, but an online application, so you'll need more than just help with site design; you need some custom server side programming too. A package, at least the ones I've heard about, probably won't fit this.

A main thing to consider are the three things needed for a website:
1. Server
2. Code
3. Content
The server will give you a place to store files, a way to get them to people and some limits, like how much can be sent, and how much can be stored. You'll need to find a hosting deal that you like, or you could even make/buy a server.
Code will make stuff work. It will work with your database, and it will make stuff show up on a page. This is where the web design is needed. This is all free to use since it's just text.
Content-- well, here's your stuff. That's easy. This is what the code makes available. Text is most common, but you can have graphics, media, files for download, etc.
The other piece is that you will need a URL, likely a domain name. You can buy your.com for around $10/year, most likely. You may also be able to get a free address, through your hosting deal, like my.myhost.com, or myhost.com/my

I hope this helps you get started.

[ali]

Well, thank you for the very informative reply! I think I'm starting to understand a few things now. It is going to be a little difficult until I get going on it. Perhaps I should have waited to buy my domain! LOL
I am interested in webdesign, but it appears that maybe I will need to grab a book or two. I don't want a cookie cutter site either, so for now it's up to me and probably several people on this site. I knew a few things you were talking about so that helped! I can do it! Thanks for telling me what I probably will want to use. I was already looking at CSS and PHP, but new nothing about client side/server side really. The whole ASP was an issue though as I was thinking it was a newer version. Why pay for something when you can get it for free? I found a program online for classified ads, was around 200, not sure if it's worth it, but it sure seemed like it would be faster! LOL I will continue to read up on these subjects. Thank you so much!

[djr33]

Sure. No problem.

Think of ASP and PHP as different brands.

No reason to wait to buy your domain. In fact, good you did already, because they're going fast. With so many people making sites, domains are harder and harder to find.

$200 seems somewhat high to me (though not entirely unreasonable), and you'd still need to configure it. It's an option, but I wouldn't just buy it right now or anything.

You may want to look at some books, sure, but the best way to learn this is just to do it. I can tell you a hundred times, or a book can do the same, but you won't really understand it until you make a page.

My suggestions to start:
1. Have good references and ways to find answers you don't know:
a) google-- usually quite easy to find out something about a specific element of web design
b) know some websites--
i-- www.w3schools.com -- this is great for many languages and has "try it editors" so you can get hands on practice, tutorials, and lots of info. You should be able to look something specific up on the site too.
ii-- www.php.net -- if you're looking at PHP, you should know this site well. It's overly technical in some ways, but look for the search box in the upper right corner. It will help you a lot. Type in the name of any function, and it will give you detailed info on how to use it and examples.
iii-- www.php-mysql-tutorial.com -- I really like this tutorial. It's simple, to the point, and explains what you need to know.
2) Just start making stuff. Doesn't matter what it is, but the more you make, the more you'll understand.
3) If you want to start figuring out how source code works:
a) as you're making your site in a WYSIWYG editor, remember to keep an eye on the code. See what happens when you press the icon for bold, or create a table. Soon, it will make sense (not all that complex, but takes a while to memorize all of it), and then you can eventually start making sure the program isn't making any mistakes (which, sadly, they all do from time to time).
b) Go find a site with some cool stuff on it (in terms of functionality), and click View>Source (or whatever your browser has for that), then look through the code. See if you can figure out what everything does.
3) Stop by and ask a question here, if you're still confused, but remember to try google first or searching through the old posts, because the question may have already been answered.