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Thread: Mac vs PC

  1. #131
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    What about Internet browsers? What types are there and how many?

    -magicyte


    Edit: Fixed annoying spellings.
    Last edited by djr33; 07-18-2008 at 03:08 AM.

  2. #132
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    There was an OS known as Lindows before Microsoft sued the **** out of the creator. It was a Linux/Windows hybrid. Supposedly pretty cool, but w/e, I never used it.
    It still exists, it was merely forced to change its name. It's now known as 'Linspire'. It's a Linux distribution, but with most of the features turned off so as not to confuse Windows users, who are automatically all presumed to be idiots. There's little benefit, and it advocates practices (such as running everything as root) that are common in the Windows world, but considered very bad form on other operating systems. Due to this, about the only extra feature you're likely to get from it is a little security-through-obscurity.

    Any mature, general-purpose operating system will have the features you specify. There's minimal difference in that area between Windows, Mac OS, and Linux (and other UNIX variants).
    Linux, as posted above has maaany varieties. Fedora, redhat, BeOS, and many others-- those are just which ones jump to my mind.
    BeOS is not in the slightest bit related to Linux. It is an entirely different operating system, developed commercially by Be and then abandoned, now being resurrected in the form of its open-source clone Haiku.

    There are really only three operating systems under the Windows brand. These are the original Windows series, <= 3.1 (really more of a shell for DOS than an operating system); the Win9x series, from Win95 to WinME, and the NT series, from the original Windows NT to current-day Vista (note that this was developed in parallel with the Win9x series for a period).

    Likewise, Mac operating systems can be divided into only two major versions: OS<X, which was an entirely proprietary platform by Apple, hand-coded in assembly targetted at the PowerPC, and OS>=X, which is a thin proprietary layer built on top of Darwin BSD.

    Linux is not, to be proper, an operating system. The general, more precise term is 'GNU/Linux'. GNU is an operating system built entirely by the Free Software Foundation and released under various GNU licenses. It lacks only a kernel, the core of the operating system which handles low-level tasks such as memory allocation and hardware interaction. This hole in the operating system is currently most commonly filled in by Linux, a free kernel developed by a group of hackers gathered by Linus Torvalds. There are efforts underway to promote interoperability between GNU and other kernels, such as the FSF's microkernel-based Hurd.

    Off of the top of my head, I can think of quite a few other operating systems, which I shall simply rattle off; Google them if you are interested in more details.

    AIX, HP/UX, Solaris, BSDs (including Darwin BSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, &c.), QNX, BeOS, Haiku, AmigaOS, QDOS ('Quick and Dirty Operating System') and spin-offs (MS-DOS ['MicroSoft Disk Operating System'], FreeDOS, PC-DOS, DR-DOS, AmigaDOS, OpenDOS, FreeDOS), AmigaOS, Microsoft and IBM's OS/2, and VMS.
    What about Internet browsers? What types are there and how many?
    On Mac OS? Probably about the same as whatever you use on whatever operating system you're on at the moment. There are only a few non-cross-platform browsers; of the ones actually in use (>1% market dominance), they're almost all variants of IE or other browsers using IE/Win's Trident engine. IE only existed for Mac OS up until version 5, but did not use Trident, which was restricted to the Windows versions. It would be reasonable to consider IE/Win and IE/Mac completely separate browsers. Safari and Camino are also quite popular, which are Mac-targetted browsers, based on KHTML and Gecko respectively, and of course there's Konqueror, which can only run under KDE, which, for now, only runs on UNIX variants, insofar as I am aware.
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  3. #133
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    They have 4 buttons; left, right, middle and squeezing the sides.

  4. #134
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    Not sure what you're talking about, but if you're referring to the mighty mouse, it's a terrible, terrible thing. I'd argue it's probably the worst component of apples now. It's a joke that it has more than one button because that's just not true. It has one button which happens to do different things when you push it in exactly some specific manner (much like a Bop-It, but harder to operate). I love the one button trackpad on my macbook, but that's because the interaction of more than one finger on the pad itself gives a lot of control-- nothing like the uncontrollable mighty mice. They're terrible, and annoy me every time I'm forced to use one at a computer that isn't mine, so I haven't had the pleasure of replacing it with a real mouse.

    Sorry for the rant, but I find that to be, as I said, one of the worst things about recent apples. Macs are usually great. But never really got the whole one button mouse thing, then they add a defective 2 1/2 button mouse... hmm...


    It would be reasonable to consider IE/Win and IE/Mac completely separate browsers.
    Arguable, but not really. I think of them both as old, defective versions of IE-- that is to say versions 5.0 and 5.5 (and anything before, of course). Since there is no newer version of IE for a Mac, I'd say that IE simply is a PC browser now, though some people still use it on really old macs (considering it's not even a part of OSX).
    Last edited by djr33; 12-25-2008 at 12:20 PM.
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  5. #135
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    pc is more known and is more compatiable with stuff

  6. #136
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    I think the idea behind the one-button mouse is that if you need more buttons, your interface is too complicated. Apple are big on simplistic user-interface design. Personally I prefer Cmd-mouse1 to mouse3 anyway, especially when dragging: dragging with the other mouse buttons has never been a pleasant task.

    [on IE/Win and IE/Mac being separate browsers] Arguable, but not really. I think of them both as old, defective versions of IE-- that is to say versions 5.0 and 5.5 (and anything before, of course).
    You feel that IE ceased to exist at version 5.5? Interesting viewpoint
    Since there is no newer version of IE for a Mac, I'd say that IE simply is a PC browser now
    You mean a Windows browser, I presume — IE does not run (natively) on any other PC operating system. That's not my point, though. I'm not sure why you say that IE/Win and IE/Mac should not be considered separate browsers — you didn't really explain it.
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  7. #137
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    IE 5 Mac was ahead of its time. Now it is woefully outdated, just as is IE 5.5 Win. In a way it is a shame that MS stopped supporting Mac OS's. But that's their prerogative. I'm certainly not an authority on these matters. But it seems to me that MS's dominance is gradually slipping away. Their biggest current rival is FireFox, but there are others. Oddly enough, from my point of view, all the major browsers have assets and drawbacks. None are perfect.

    But this is somewhat separate from MS's problem. They've spent so much time trying (and mostly succeeding) to dominate their market niche, while at the same time that niche has broadened. It's no longer just about browsers, search, software or OS's, and even just that much is hard for any one company to stay on top of.

    I think that is where most folks who "love to hate MS" are coming from. Instead of acting like a cooperative player, MS has more often than not been angling to be the only player in town.
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  8. #138
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    Twey, I wrote that a long time ago, but to clarify, I think my point was basically that IE for Mac is old, outdated and worthless. It's not supported, not current, and not able to keep up any more (barely render a layout, much less do anything like javascript). No one uses it either and it doesn't ship with the current machines (last 4 years or so).
    Basically, IE for Mac has ceased to exist.
    If you want to consider it a separate browser, fine by me and it basically is (at least compared to IE6,7,8 for win), but at that point you might as well bring back all old browsers, like netscape (before it got enveloped into firefox), etc.

    As for my reference to PC not including linux, good point, but basically true. In the big world war of computers, linux is basically Switzerland. It's not taking a side and it's not winning either. It's just doing it's own thing on the side with basically the same people it started with (but, hey, after the war, I can see lots of people moving there instead). "PC" referring to non-macs is very strange anyway, considering the term was coined by Apple. When I say "PC" fairly often I just do mean windows machines. But anyway, yeah, consider IE now a windows-only browser. (And in the sense of the specifically non-mac meaning of "PC" I suppose that still holds true of IE regardless of linux.)
    I'd favor a decision to render the term "PC" meaningless, but I doubt it would actually catch on.
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    I think that is where most folks who "love to hate MS" are coming from. Instead of acting like a cooperative player, MS has more often than not been angling to be the only player in town.
    Well, not only that: they often go out of their way to disable rivals in markets they want to get into by mangling existing standards, like with MS Java and, indeed, IE. This has the effect of not only taking over that particular niche, but making sure that the dominant product in that niche is thoroughly rubbish.

    Daniel: ah, yes, that's certainly true, but not really related to what I was saying. Even though it's no longer developed, IE/Mac is/was basically a separate browser from IE/Win. They were completely different. With regards to ‘not able to keep up any more’, I'm tempted to note that IE7 isn't that good at it either It's all about what developers are prepared to take the trouble to support.

    As for my reference to PC not including linux, good point, but basically true. In the big world war of computers, linux is basically Switzerland. It's not taking a side and it's not winning either. It's just doing it's own thing on the side with basically the same people it started with
    Well, that's true for some distributions, but many (like Ubuntu) are designed specifically to target the niche of novice computer users, which seems to be what Mac OS X and Vista are both trying to accomplish. It's not completely separate from the others, even on the desktop market: its share is something like 2.5% (compared to Mac's 5%) and growing steadily.
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