lookin for help from kind souls

[Lola]

Hello my name is Lola, im am so glad to have found this forum!
I would like to ask if anyone would beable to help me?
I am new to this world of HTML code i find it extremely interesting, have read alot of posts, and books...but am having no luck whatsoever.
I dont even know where to start. was wondering if anyone has the patience here to explain to me where to begin when designing your own website. I have the site already through godaddy, just am having trouble starting my own business when I have nowhere to refer them to.

Any help would be greatly apreciated!
Thanks,
Lola

[simonf]

what exactly are you looking for:
1) help in design?
2) What program do use to make a web site?
3) how to use a program?
4) "No luck whatsoever" - meaning???

In other words.. how would you like us to assist you??? 0)

[Twey]

http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp

[Lola]

what exactly are you looking for:
1) help in design?
2) What program do use to make a web site?
3) how to use a program?
4) "No luck whatsoever" - meaning???

In other words.. how would you like us to assist you??? 0)


I am sorry.
I need help in design, where to begin..how to incorporate everything together?(finished header, finished logo, etc..) I have a couple programs, but which do you prefer. And yes, help with using that program, would be beneficial!
No luck so ever= exaughsted with failure, trying to impress hubby so he will continue to allow me to pursue this interest of mine (keeping the domain i hv purshased)
Thanks,
Lola

[djr33]

Web design is a multidimensional thing.

It's both an art form and a science, so you have to get used to both.

Web DESIGN is pretty straightforward. Hopefully you have an eye for art. If not, well, just go find websites. Don't make it like the bad ones, and make it like the good ones.
Remember, in addition to html, etc., you'll also need graphics for this. Look into photoshop, or "the Gimp", it's open-source/free equivalent.

Web CODING is a bit more complex and to use a stereotype "more related to math", etc. You'll have to get into code and such, but, really, don't worry, it's not that bad.
It can get insanely complex or stay relatively easy. It all depends on what you want.

As for a program, I love using Dreamweaver. It has some weird bugs as all WYSIWYG (what-you-see-is-what-you-get) editors have, but it's pretty nice. The layout takes some time to get used to, but it'll be nice in the end.
The biggest advantage to it over other programs I've used is that it color-codes the code in code view if you're not using the "preview" view.
Basically... you can get a preview AS YOU TYPE of whether or not the code is making sense... if it colors it correctly or not. If not, you probly have a typo and it'll be obvious/easy to fix.

The code is pretty simple. It's based in open and close commands, like <b>bold text</b>. There are many, and some can have different attributes: <font size="1">small text</font>.
there are also some tags that dont require a close tag, like <img src="url.jpg"> and <br> (line break).
Look at the link Twey gave or google it.


Best advice: start looking at websites. Go find some you like. And especially go find some you hate. Never do what they do, and your site will be great, right? Learn from bad examples... really helpful. (google "bad website examples" or "bad design examples" and see what comes up... there are some sites that just list bad sites to look at... really good to see what doesn't work, so you never do it)
Also, while you're there, hit View>Source and check out what's making it run. It'll be totally foreign to you, but read on. Just see what it's like. Then go to another site, do the same, and soon you'll start having a clue about what it all means.

Note: resist the urge to make "cool" stuff that just, in reality, looks terrible. Examples: splash pages ("click here to enter").. totally pointless, as well as flash graphics... they take forever to load, aren't compatible unless you have the plugin, and aren't that hard to do something nearly as good with regular code.


When designing, try to keep in mind the users who
1. Don't have as new/the same browser that you do. This can totally change how stuff looks. Internet explorer is horrible with bugs and IE only things that won't work in other browsers.. preview in as many as you can, especially IE, Firefox and maybe Opera and Safari*. (*if you have a mac).
2. Have smaller (and larger) resolutions than you do. Sideways scrolling is always the sign of a badly designed site. find an alternative. Make your site fit within, at the most, 779px across (800px minus the width of toolbars when maximized) for 800x600 users. Lower than that isn't common any more. Also, this about what will happen when your site gets really big.... will it still look ok?


Anyway... just START. Quit asking "how" and just DO! (Not to yell at you or anything, I mean this in an encouraging way, not reprimanding.)
You'll learn quickly.... just see what happens.


Last note about WYSIWYG editors: they can help, but they end up screwing with the code too much and you don't know what's really going on. They're a good way to get into web design, but ALWAYS keep an eye on what the code is that's being generated so:
1. You get an idea of how the html works... not that hard, really.
2. You can fix any bugs that come up, because, surely, there WILL be some.


Good luck.

[Cold Gunmetal]

If you are having some trouble with the programming, I will start a list that I have come up with on my own and with the help of my Computer Apps teacher. (I'm a freshman in high school.) Okay, here goes:



<html> //Put this at the start of the website code
<head> //Beginning of the header section (top)
<title> //Beginning of title (goes in header, is displayed at top of Internet Explorer window)
</title> //Ends title
</head> //Ends header
<body> //Begins body section (main)
<p></p> //Beginning and end tags for new paragraph
<br> //Next line (no end tag)
<hr> //Makes horizontal line across page; starts new line (no end tag)
<h1> through <h6>
//Makes headline (h1 is largest, h6 is smallest)
</h1> through </h6>
//Ends corresponding headline
<b> or <strong>
//Bold print
</b> or </strong>
//Ends bold
<i></i> //Tags for italics
<u></u> //Tags for underline
<body bgcolor="color"> or <body bgcolor="hexcode">
//Sets background color
<body text="color"> or <body text="hexcode">
//Sets body text color
<body font size="#">
//Sets font size (1-6)
<a href="example.com">text displayed</a>
//Makes hyperlink text displayed to example.com
<a href=mailto:me@example.com>Mail to me</a>
//Makes mailto hyperlink Mail to me to me@example.com


Sorry, I have to go. But I will be posting my full list soon at my website, coldgunmetal.com (http://www.coldgunmetal.com).

[Twey]

Missed DOCTYPE; every single one of the attributes to body you mentioned is deprecated (or never existed, in the case of "<body font size>"); attribute values must be enclosed in quotes, except purely numerical values; // is not an HTML comment marker; <b> and <i> are deprecated for the CSS font-weight and font-style in some newer DOCTYPEs, respectively. Certainly in XHTML Strict; possibly in HTML 4.01 Strict, I can't remember.
Also, your BBCode is broken. :)

[mwinter]

If you are having some trouble with the programmingWriting markup is not programming. Markup languages are a form of notation; they don't 'do' anything.


I will start a list [...]Not to kill your enthusiasm, but don't bother. The HTML specification (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/) already has a complete list of elements (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/elements.html) and attributes (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/attributes.html) with links to their descriptions.


<html> //Put this at the start of the website codeA document type declaration should start a document and include both the public and system identifiers. The one below should be the only one you need to use.



<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">



<head> //Beginning of the header section (top)Head, not header. Head and body, see? :)

Seriously, though, it's best to maintain some distinctions to make discussions easier to follow. For instance, if I referred to a header, what exactly do I mean? The header within a document that might contain the title, company or site logo, search bar, etc? The head element? A heading (hx) element? A table row group (thead)? Context may help, but not always.


<title> //Beginning of title (goes in header, is displayed at top of Internet Explorer window)The fact that it's displayed in the title bar of graphical browsers isn't significant information. What is, is the fact that the value will appear in the history list, search engine results, and in connection with the Back button. It's for this reason that document titles should be reasonably short, descriptive, and useful independent of the site. That is, just by looking at the document title, in isolation, the user should know exactly where they would be without actually having to go there.


<br> //Next line (no end tag)A forced line break should be a rare thing. Address lines, song and poem verse, and the like are appropriate uses. Typical usage, such as adding vertical space between elements, is not.


<hr> //Makes horizontal line across page; starts new line (no end tag)The same here. If the line is just presentational, it should be rendered using CSS (a border, usually).


<h1> through <h6>
//Makes headline (h1 is largest, h6 is smallest)A heading, and the size is irrelevant. Headings are semantic; the number represents the heading level. The h1 element is the top-level heading - it usually contains the document title and only occurs once. The h2 element is second-level heading, and usually serves as a subtitle for sections within the document. Heading levels should not be skipped (h1 then h3, for example, shouldn't occur), and headings should never be used to acheive a certain presentational effect. If the correct heading level is too large, or whatever, use CSS to change that.


<b> or <strong>
//Bold printThe b and strong elements are not the same. This is also true of the i and em elements. The em and strong elements have meaning. They both provide emphasis, with strong indicating stronger emphasis. A simple example would be, "Do <strong>not</strong> do that!".

In comparison, the i and b elements simply imply presentation. They are not deprecated (contrary to what Twey said), but they are rarely used. An example of correct usage would be the name of a species in academic literature:



<i class="species">Homo sapiens sapiens</i>
There is no semantic element for bi- or tri-nomen, so a span element would also serve. However, as italic type is typical in print, and could be considered closely coupled to the content itself, the i element is probably a better choice.


<u></u> //Tags for underlineThe u element is deprecated, and isn't advisable anyway; underlining should be reserved for links.


<body bgcolor="color"> or <body bgcolor="hexcode">
//Sets background color
<body text="color"> or <body text="hexcode">
//Sets body text colorBoth of these are deprecated and should be replaced with CSS. It should also be noted that if one intends to set one colour, set them all (http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/color).


<body font size="#">
//Sets font size (1-6)Presumably you meant the font element, but that's evil. Use percentages with the font or font-size properties in CSS.

Mike

[djr33]

I hate that <b> and <i> are being replaced. Why...? It's just more typing. Why come up with more complex commands when the old ones are doing just fine?

[mwinter]

I hate that <b> and <i> are being replaced.They aren't being replaced. As I wrote, b and strong, and i and em, are not the same.

Mike

[djr33]

In dreamweaver, when you click the B it uses <strong>.
this bugs me.

They are meant to replace <b> and <i>... if not actually override them, just make them less used.

What's the point.

I mean.... all this "suggested" rather than absolute formatting is annoying. Just use BOLD if you want BOLD... not some weird browser setting...

[mwinter]

In dreamweaver, when you click the B it uses <strong>.WYSIWYG software has no sense of semantics.


They are meant to replace <b> and <i>...No, they aren't. I hope you don't make me repeat that again.


if not actually override them, just make them less used.CSS makes them less used, because that's where presentation should be suggested.


What's the point.HTML is, and always has been, a structural markup language. Presentational elements and attributes have never had any place within it. Their introduction was only a result of the browser wars, where vendors added support for new elements and attributes in an effort to out-do the competition.


I mean.... all this "suggested" rather than absolute formatting is annoying.Get used to it. HTML is not about formatting.



attribute values must be enclosed in quotes, except purely numerical valuesThat isn't true. As long as a value is composed of only letters (a-z), numbers (0-9), hyphens (-), periods (.), underscores (_), and colons (:&#41;, it may appear without quotes. A value containing any other value must be quoted, however it's good practice to always quote attribute values.

Mike

[Twey]

They are not deprecated (contrary to what Twey said)Whoops!
As long as a value is composed of only letters (a-z), numbers (0-9), hyphens (-), periods (.), underscores (_), and colons (:), it may appear without quotes.
By default, SGML requires that all attribute values be delimited using
either double quotation marks (ASCII decimal 34) or single quotation
marks (ASCII decimal 39). Single quote marks can be included within
the attribute value when the value is delimited by double quote marks,
and vice versa. Authors may also use numeric character references to
represent double quotes (&#34;) and single quotes (&#39;). For double
quotes authors can also use the character entity reference &quot;.

In certain cases, authors may specify the value of an attribute
without any quotation marks. The attribute value may only contain
letters (a-z and A-Z), digits (0-9), hyphens (ASCII decimal 45),
periods (ASCII decimal 46), underscores (ASCII decimal 95), and colons
(ASCII decimal 58). We recommend using quotation marks even when it is
possible to eliminate them.Drat. Foiled again. :p

[Cold Gunmetal]

I have tried every one of those out myself in Note Pad (saving it as .html and reopening it with Internet Explorer) and I know that they all work. I just wanted to add that I have posted as much HTML on my website coldgunmetal.com (http://www.coldgunmetal.com/) as I could fit in in 15 minutes (that sentence was gramatically questionable) on my high school's slow server (it's a tech academy, don't worry) earlier today. It's actually less than the list above, but I didn't have much time. So check it out. I need the hit counter to go up. And that has been the first thing I have put on there since February except a really bad attempt at a forum and a bunch of notes saying that the site is under construction, as it probably will be until my domain expires. Or longer, if I get a renewed domain. But I have to go, my sister wants to go on.

She's a little mad since her work place burned up and closed last night.

[Cold Gunmetal]

I use Note Pad, not some crappy middleman compiler like FrontPage or Dreamweaver. Also, if you have a list or part of one, send it to my email at coldgunmetal@coldgunmetal.com. You can enter it yourself, just head it with something I would recognize, like your username on these forums or the name Dynamic Drive Buddy HTML Help List, or something like that. Now I might have to go soon, my neighbor usually goes online about now, and that saps the little bandwidth I can receive. (About one bar) Well, seeya!:cool:

[Twey]

I have tried every one of those out myself in Note Pad (saving it as .html and reopening it with Internet Explorer) and I know that they all work.That doesn't mean that they're acceptable. Ask the validator (http://validator.w3.org/).

[Cold Gunmetal]

Okay, so maybe the <body font size> one was a little weird, but every one of those is legitimate. Except that one. Okay? And besides, I'm not constantly trying these out, just in Comp Apps class and between homework. I'm not a Mad Professor or anything. I'm actually pretty new at most of this. And also, the validator is for different doctypes (either that, or I just made myself look like an idiot) :o . I have to go. Mr. Towne is yelling at me. Bye!

[mwinter]

[...] if you have a list or part of oneDid you actually bother reading my post? Any list of elements or attributes you or anyone else makes is likely to be either incomplete or misinformed, and always redundant.


every one of those is legitimateLegitimate? Perhaps. Are all of them recommendable? No.


I'm actually pretty new at most of this.Acknowledged, and it's clear that you're only trying to help others. There's nothing wrong with that. However, providing inadequate or misleading information is not helpful to anyone. Please understand that it is that which is at the root of my objection.


And also, the validator is for different doctypes"For different doctypes"? Care to explain what you mean by that?

A document type declaration, which should be included in every HTML document, states what 'version' (for want of a better term) of HTML a document uses. A validator can then use that to determine if the document does indeed live up to its claim.

There are only three document type definitions (DTDs) for modern HTML, and only one of those should be of typical interest, so I don't know what 'different doctypes' you could be referring to.


(either that, or I just made myself look like an idiot)Not at all, though it didn't make much sense to me. :)

Mike

[Jack]

I know what you mean… When my wife and I first started we didn’t know where to start until someone told us about www.coffeecup.com HTML Editor and things just picked up from there. It’s a very simple to use HTML Editor and it’s FREE!

We figured it out in a few days and bang – been having fun building web sites ever since. Just don’t give up because it’s really not as hard as some make it out.

I've to an e-mail add on my link page should you want to get in touch with me and maybe I'll be able to help you. :)

[Twey]

It's a WYSIWYG editor. I advise not touching it with a bargepole.

www.beholdhecomes.netI see background-color assumption, Flash dependence, and... ye gods, it's a <marquee> tag.

[Jack]

It's a WYSIWYG editor. I advise not touching it with a bargepole.
I see background-color assumption, Flash dependence, and... ye gods, it's a <marquee> tag.

Ohhhh....

[Lola]

i have written my html code in dreamweaver for my homepage...still unaware of how to make other pages and link them to first one.Would someone be able to descibe how this is done? =(
I am also having trouble "uploading" it to my website to make it live. (please excuse my terminology I am VERY new to this all) could anyone be my guiding hand, as I venture out into the world of cyperspace? i would very much appreciate any and all help given =)

Thanks,
Lola