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clubamigos
01-31-2006, 09:12 AM
I am having problems with getting a right hand side border positioned correctly. What l would like is for the dotted line to touch the navbar and the bottom of the content section of the page.
If you see the following screenshot you will see what l am trying to achieve. The red line indicates what l am trying to do.
I would really appreciate any help as this is proving to be very difficult what l am trying to acheive.

http://clubamigos.port5.com/screenshot_firefox_view.jpg

http://clubamigos.port5.com/screenshot_IE_view.jpg

robertcathles
02-17-2006, 06:17 PM
Hi, my name is Robert, and I would like to help you as another beginner of this forum.

Try putting more <br>'s at the bottom, as such:

<br><br><br>

It might help but I don't know as I can't see the whole thing. Otherwise you might want to try using this CSS property on the table cell:

<td style="border-right:1px dotted black;"> ... </td>

... Although I suppose you are already using this property.

I was trying to do the same thing before, as shown on this page: http://uk.geocities.com/robcboff/windows_system.html, there is a grey line all the way down the page in the centre. The style property I have mentioned above is how I got it to work.

You might also want to consider the <td valign=top> attribute, which will align everything to the top of a cell. Then just put more <br>'s in there. The only reason for this happening would be if the cell to the left of it was overflowing the size of the one you are trying to solve, in which case the valign might help you.

Please tell me how it goes!

Twey
02-17-2006, 06:49 PM
You might also want to consider the <td valign=top> attributeRobert: a hint: never use HTML when there's perfectly good CSS available :)

vertical-align: top;
Internet Explorer RULES!!! Down with Firefox!!!Well, I've heard the latter part of that a few times, but the former is a new one on me :) What do you suggest to those people with operating systems for which Microsoft hasn't released a version of Internet Explorer? :)

robertcathles
02-17-2006, 07:17 PM
a hint: never use HTML when there's perfectly good CSS available
Well, actually, the attribute valign has less bytes than CSS. Sort of, unless using the <style> tag. I also thought that it was much better to use HTML tags in all cases (wherever possible) rather than CSS.


What do you suggest to those people with operating systems for which Microsoft hasn't released a version of Internet Explorer?
I personally didn't know that there were not any Windows OS's without Internet Explorer - seeing that "everyone" has Windows XP now (I know very few people with an older OS) then I assumed that every Windows has IE on it. I don't have much experience with businesses so I don't know what they would use - I am aware that some Windows OSs are specially built for business use (e.g. Windows Server 2000 ???).

But I suppose that if Windows does not have IE, then Firefox would be an alternative, as it is better than Netscape, Deepnet or Opera (apparently).

Can you please tell me which Windows versions do not have IE?

However, I am sure that all users can download Internet Explorer from the Windows Update website...

Twey
02-17-2006, 07:43 PM
I also thought that it was much better to use HTML tags in all cases (wherever possible) rather than CSS.Quite the opposite: the purpose of CSS is to seperate the content of the page from the way that content is styled and shown, thus giving pages a better design and making them more easily maintainable. Soon the HTML attributes that have been deprecated by CSS will be removed from the standard - most of them already have been from XHTML.

However, I am sure that all users can download Internet Explorer from the Windows Update website...Apparently, I need to be running Windows to get Windows Update. Sheesh... how stingy of Microsoft.

seeing that "everyone" has Windows XP now (I know very few people with an older OS)I have a newer OS, but I still can't get Internet Explorer.
Can you please tell me which Windows versions do not have IE?Anything before '95, insofar as I'm aware.
I personally didn't know that there were not any Windows OS's without Internet ExplorerThere probably aren't, worth mentioning. But I'm sure I didn't so much as use the word "Windows" in my post. What made you think I was talking about it?
Firefox would be an alternative, as it is better than Netscape, Deepnet or Opera (apparently).That's a matter of opinion. :) The only thing you will find most serious web developers and even a lot of serious users agree on is that IE is inferior to just about anything, and doesn't even adhere to the W3C standards that Microsoft has a say in.

robertcathles
02-17-2006, 07:52 PM
the purpose of CSS is to seperate the content of the page from the way that content is styled and shown, thus giving pages a better design and making them more easily maintainable. Soon the HTML attributes that have been deprecated by CSS will be removed from the standard
Yes, I suppose, hence it can all be done just from the head, but still, <b> is much easier than font-weight:bold; and class="b" at minimum.


Anything before '95, insofar as I'm aware.
Why would anyone want an OS earlier than '95? It would be highly dangerous connecting one of them to the Internet, and you probably wouldn't get Firefox or any other browser on them anyway (there are more than likely incompatible).


But I'm sure I didn't so much as use the word "Windows" in my post. What made you think I was talking about it?
You said 'Microsoft' and 'Internet Explorer'. As far as I am aware, Microsoft no longer supports IE for other OSs such as Macintosh. And... all of the Microsoft OSs are called Windows so, they can only have IE on them.


The only thing you will find most serious web developers and even a lot of serious users agree on is that IE is inferior to just about anything, and doesn't even adhere to the W3C standards that Microsoft has a say in.
I think my review on Firefox will settle everything (http://uk.geocities.com/robcboff/firefox_review.html). There's no point in continuing this debate on this thread, it would be better to solve the problem and purpose of this thread. Internet Explorer beat Firefox in terms of security anyway, according to Symantec's security report for Jan-June 2005. And I am a serious Internet user myself, even computer user, and I still think that IE is better, in terms of everything. My review had tackled a lot of 'feature' resolutions. Sorry to boast, I just get very frustrated by some of the simple things.

Twey
02-17-2006, 08:05 PM
Why would anyone want an OS earlier than '95?Hence its not being worth mentioning.
It would be highly dangerous connecting one of them to the InternetI could say "so what's changed?" here, but I'm going to resist the urge. :)
You said 'Microsoft' and 'Internet Explorer'. As far as I am aware, Microsoft no longer supports IE for other OSs such as Macintosh.I said "operating systems for which Microsoft hasn't released IE" :)
Yes, I suppose, hence it can all be done just from the head, but still, <b> is much easier than font-weight:bold; and class="b" at minimum.Easier in the short term, perhaps; not so easy in the long term. Besides, you can use selectors to apply font-weight:bold; to something else, like a <span> or <p>, without even having to use a class.

robertcathles
02-17-2006, 08:27 PM
I said "operating systems for which Microsoft hasn't released IE" :)
continued... looking and reading a different way, as far as I know (at least until now), every OS has its own browser. Hence without a browser you would not be able to choose a different one in the first place (without having them as a seperate installation source).


Easier in the short term, perhaps; not so easy in the long term. Besides, you can use selectors to apply font-weight:bold; to something else, like a <span> or <p>, without even having to use a class.
True. But I like using tags like <span> for mutliple different attributes and properties, and do not want the same one for every <span>. However, I have recently found out that both the tag name and class can counter this, but it does require more thought. When writing the code in, it is easier, at least for me to just leave the code, as I don't do much maintenance on my pages. I make them perfect first time round and never have to edit them again (providing I still like them) - but I can understand how businesses might require this organisation.

Thank you for your advice, anyway :)

Twey
02-17-2006, 08:44 PM
continued... looking and reading a different way, as far as I know (at least until now), every OS has its own browser. Hence without a browser you would not be able to choose a different one in the first place (without having them as a seperate installation source).Not so. I believe Windows is the only operating system to tie its browser in -- although I don't know exactly what the relationship between Mac OS and Safari is, as I don't own a Mac. If you install anything else -- Linux, BSD, Windows pre-95, even DOS -- there are/were a wide variety of browsers to choose from, and none of them obligatory.

I make them perfect first time round and never have to edit them again (providing I still like them)Until the standard changes, and the doctype you used becomes obsolete, and you realize that to keep your pages viewable you're going to have to write them from scratch :)

Thank you for your advice, anywayAny time :)

robertcathles
02-17-2006, 08:57 PM
I believe Windows is the only operating system to tie its browser in
I didn't know that, sorry.


Until the standard changes, and the doctype you used becomes obsolete, and you realize that to keep your pages viewable you're going to have to write them from scratch
I don't like to keep up to the standards, its just a waste of time to me. My motto for making pages work when writing the HTML is that if it works in the most popular browser, then its fine. Basically I'm just too lazy to check it works in all browsers and to W3C's standards :)

I do write my HTML pages from scratch. All I use is Notepad. And I don't see my pages or code being obsolete at the moment, so therefore I can still use them, and that is how I have managed to help so many people in my local community start learning HTML easily - with simple tags that do work for the majority. Thank you for notifying me of this, though, it does make me think :)

Twey
02-17-2006, 09:02 PM
I don't like to keep up to the standards, its just a waste of time to me. My motto for making pages work when writing the HTML is that if it works in the most popular browser, then its fine. Basically I'm just too lazy to check it works in all browsers and to W3C's standardsThe standards exist for a reason. If you follow the standards, you can be sure that your page will run in a variety of browsers, on a variety of operating systems, and to a variety of special audiences, including those with unusual hardware/software such as screen readers. If you don't, what you have is a house built on sand: it may look good, but it won't stand up to any unusual circumstances or requirements -- or even a close examination.

robertcathles
02-18-2006, 08:53 AM
The standards exist for a reason. If you follow the standards, you can be sure that your page will run in a variety of browsers, on a variety of operating systems, and to a variety of special audiences, including those with unusual hardware/software such as screen readers. If you don't, what you have is a house built on sand: it may look good, but it won't stand up to any unusual circumstances or requirements -- or even a close examination.
Okay, I give up. I've used up all my armies of pointless reasons, and have none left. I suppose what you're trying to say is that I just shouldn't write code "wrong" in the first place, and then should never suggest it or share it.

I suppose the only thing to blame was the way I learnt HTML and CSS - I bought a book from the school library connections called Build Your Own Website by Robert L. Perry. They only talked about one browser, Netscape, and only HTML (not a mention of CSS or Javascript). It's a very simple and free-spirited book (the coding does not say that basic tags like HTML and BODY are required for the page to 'work'), but it still defines the core tags for creating a simple page. I learnt my CSS and Javascript from just surfing the web a lot and reading the code for clues as to how certain things worked. I think this explains why I don't appreciate other browsers and standards - I was never taught to do so.

Sorry for that existential view there, I just feel I needed to say it.

Twey
02-18-2006, 11:37 AM
and then should never suggest it or share it.Certainly not! If you never share it and get corrected, how will you know what's "right" beyond what the validator can tell you?

I bought a book from the school library connections called Build Your Own Website by Robert L. Perry.Mine was HTML 4 For Dummies. :)
I learnt my CSS and Javascript from just surfing the web a lot and reading the code for clues as to how certain things worked. I think this explains why I don't appreciate other browsers and standards - I was never taught to do so.Stick around here, and you soon will :)