Yikes,I am heading to the next level

[ajfmrf]

I am over 300 posts and still going-lol

My head is starting to swell-lol

[keyboard]

Only 50 more 'till you're a senior coder.... and then another 650 till you're an elite :p
Nice work man!

[james438]

Being a Senior Coder is definitely an achievement. There are only 22 coders that have made it to Elite Coder status the most recent being molendijk.

[keyboard]

Can I put a claim to making it to elite coder?

[djr33]

Before there were any mods (just ddadmin as administrator), I think John was the only one to make it to some highest level-- I can't remember how many posts-- 5,000? 10,000? It's been a while.


Edit: here it is, a link that is like a time machine back to an earlier era of DD...
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/forums/showthread.php?20155-Congrats-jscheuer1-!




And ajfmrf, congrats on hitting 300. It's good to have you around on the board.

[keyboard]

I think it was 10 000... (supreme coder or somesuch...)

[james438]

I could be wrong but I think it was 10,000. Even now 10K posts is an insane number. Kudos for reaching it by the way!

[djr33]

Yep. I found the link and edited it in above.


Hm, my 10,000 posts is what I get for 4.47 posts per day over the past 5.5 years! But John's now at more than twice that. But the more impressive figure is his 2,720 thanks!

(Looks like I'm catching up with Twey though!)

[bernie1227]

Before there were any mods (just ddadmin as administrator), I think John was the only one to make it to some highest level-- I can't remember how many posts-- 5,000? 10,000? It's been a while.


As far as I remember, John had the highest post count of anyone (as usuall) with James (Twey) trailing by a couple of thousand. I vaguely remember a thread posted by pcbrainbuster about John becoming a supreme coder.

Turns out to be the same one you linked to.
(Spent one afternoon looking through almost every post in the lounge ever, hence why I know these things :p)

[djr33]

(Spent one afternoon looking through almost every post in the lounge ever, hence why I know these things )That's a lot of reading!

[bernie1227]

Meh, it's only 50-something pages.
There's a surprisingly large amount of repeated threads. The most amusing ones were probably by techno_race and pcbrainbuster.

[djr33]

Meh, it's only 50-something pages.Each with 20 threads and many of those with multiple pages-- adds up to a novel, I'd think. Nonfiction, of course :D

[bernie1227]

The next big blockbuster novel:
"50 pages of lounge threads - the dynamic drive story"
- based on true events

[djr33]

In a world... where there are errors to be found in code... when only elite coders can debug the scripts... a group of unlikely heroes must work together.... to save the internet!

[keyboard]

Oh pcbrainbuster... how you amuse me.
Everytime I'm bored, I just go look through his threads... They're a laugh and a half.

[bernie1227]

In a world... where there are errors to be found in code... when only elite coders can debug the scripts... a group of unlikely heroes must work together.... to save the internet!

that just reminded me of something:
4834
couldn't resist it :p

[keyboard]

that just reminded me of something:
4834
couldn't resist it :p

The story of my life.

[Beverleyh]

Ha! So true - a moderator's work is never done

Keep up the great work in the forum ajfmrf - it's nice to have another regular around.

I cant remember where i saw the article I read a while back - think it was by Jakob Neilsen - but it talked about web visitor contribution; 10% of visitors contribute occasionally and 1% contributes regularly. It seems that the vast majority of folks only sign up at DD to get a question answered and they're never to be seen again, which is a shame. It's a more pleasant atmosphere when people hang around, contribute, learn and grow together. I suppose that's just the nature of the web though - people use it to find information and once they have it, its purpose is served... exit();

[keyboard]

Actually... a whole pile of members never post at all (or have had their posts deleted). 18697 of them...
And 44020 of the members have less than 5 posts...

So yeah.... what Beverley said :p

[Beverleyh]

Group hug for everyone hanging out in The Lounge!

So are you guys members of other forums as well as DD?

[ajfmrf]

Just this forum for me-I visit it 20-40 times a day I would guess.

I don't think many people are aware of the lounge where more casual topics are allowed and encouraged.

I try to help when I can if I see a post that is something I might be helpful with but I am sometimes intimidated by the knowledge some of you have. I am not an expert in anything by any means but feel that after all the help I have received that I owe to try and reciprecate.

As I write this the font and images are increasing in size so much that I am loosing the location to see what I have typed.I use windows 7 and the latest version of ff-any suggestions??

I am asking because it is happening now as I do this post.I am at a loss why this happens once a week or so?????

[Beverleyh]

The font thing sounds very odd. I mainly browse on ie9/windows 7 or mercury browser/iPhone/ios6 so I haven't come across the wierdy increase. Have you noticed that happening on any other browsers?

I have to agree with your sentiments about returning help and feeling a little intimidated sometimes. I think that we all have our strengths though and being willing to offer help as well as admit that you need it at times is very admirable. I like to think that it puts us in a slightly better position for receiving the right help when we need it too because we've taken the time to get to know those 'in the know' and lighten a bit of the workload on the big guys ;)

Outside of code-world I only really hang around/mod a doll collectors site (JemCon) but inside of code-world, aside from DD, I do enjoy following Smashing Magazine and Specky Boy

[james438]

By far I visit this forum more than any other, but I do dabble in about a dozen others where I only have maybe a dozen or so posts. I'm a bit of a hermit that way ;)

P.S. I like your new avatar Beverly :)

[Beverleyh]

Thank you James :)

That pic was 'best of 87' ha, ha - I'm not very photogentic.
http://backinshape.jemcon.org/userfiles/images/gallery/November-2012.jpg
I had to do some cleavage-control in Photoshop because one was saying a little bit more than 'hello boys'
('Cleavage-control' versus the more commonly use Photoshop term, 'touch-up', for obvious reasons, LOL)

[james438]

I can't tell that the picture was edited at all! What do you mean by 'best of 87'?

I am not very photogenic either. This avatar is the only picture of myself that I have put online and there are very few others besides that one. I do hope to get at least one more of myself up here in the gallery next month.

[Beverleyh]

Me and my sis went on a mission to get some nice pics for my dad yesterday, so we literally took 87 photos, and that was the best one. You know what it's like when you keep blinking or fake-smile and one side if your face goes all squiffy? That's what I'm like 99% of the time!

[djr33]

KB and Beverley, the other side to that is that it does make the forum a more active place and brings in new members. I think the main reason DD works is because it's attached to the DD scripts help section-- that brings in a lot of new people, and otherwise it wouldn't really be set apart from other web design sites (not that I'm saying it's not better than many of them-- I think it is).
I agree though that it's nice to chat with the regular users and get to know people a bit more than just talking about code (or whatever the topic may be).

ajfmrf, I don't know about the fonts. I haven't experienced that. Is there any chance you're unintentionally zooming in with the trackpad? I know that at least on a mac if you move your thumbs to the wrong spot while typing once in a while a "gesture" can occur on the trackpad-- for me the most common issue is inadvertently going 'back' in the browser while typing a reply to a post. If not, this is something ddadmin should know. I can't replicate it (on a mac).

Beverley, yes I spend a bit of time other places. This is by far the forum I've spent the most time at over the years, but there have been a few others along the way-- a while ago one (or three) for filmmaking (one that I started, which had a decent life for about 3-4 years), a couple random ones here and there, more recently one for linguistics (where I've just become a mod to help play whack-a-mole with the spammers), and my own site for language learning which is still in beta mode-- no userbase yet, but most of the site is ready to go-- I just have too little time to get it to that next level at the moment, but soon I hope!

And by the way, your pictures seem to turn out fine on here, even if it does take 87 tries :p

[traq]

So are you guys members of other forums as well as DD?

I do a lot of hanging out at scifi-meshes (http://scifi-meshes.com).

As for coding, you can find me at css-tricks (http://css-tricks.com/forums) and phpbuilder (http://board.phpbuilder.com). I answer questions at stackoverflow (http://stackoverflow.com) when I can, but I mostly spend my time there reading other people's answers.

[Beverleyh]

Yep - DD is my fave too. The script-to-script-help forum overlap must really help get people talking/contributing. It's certainly the reason why I first signed up.

Dan, your language learning site sounds very interesting. I know you speak more languages that I can comfortably get my head around so I'm thinking that your work could be a useful learning tool for the foreign language students at the school where I work. Let us know when the link is available and I'll pass it on to our language dept.

Yey, James is going to take some photos for his new avatar. The pic you had/have on your church site is nice too - I saw you peeking out from the back, pretending to be shy!

[Beverleyh]

Thanks for those links traq - I see you're online at phpbuilder right now ;)

I've never thought to sign up to another code forum but you might see me venturing out a bit more now.

[keyboard]

Group hug for everyone hanging out in The Lounge!

So are you guys members of other forums as well as DD?

I'm a member on a couple... dd forums, a batch scripting forum, web developers, coding forums, (last two I'm bairly active) a forum for age of empires 2, vb.net forums (barely active), and that's about it.

[traq]

Thanks for those links traq - I see you're online at phpbuilder right now ;)

actually, (on my home computer) I just never sign out of anything :)

[bernie1227]

Ha! So true - a moderator's work is never done

Keep up the great work in the forum ajfmrf - it's nice to have another regular around.

I cant remember where i saw the article I read a while back - think it was by Jakob Neilsen - but it talked about web visitor contribution; 10% of visitors contribute occasionally and 1% contributes regularly. It seems that the vast majority of folks only sign up at DD to get a question answered and they're never to be seen again, which is a shame. It's a more pleasant atmosphere when people hang around, contribute, learn and grow together. I suppose that's just the nature of the web though - people use it to find information and once they have it, its purpose is served... exit();

I wrote a thread dedicated to dynamic drive statistics (http://www.dynamicdrive.com/forums/showthread.php?69923-dd-forum-statistics&highlight=Dynamic+drive+dd+stats) a while ago that you may find interesting.


vb.net forums (barely active)
I thought you got ip banned from vb forums?

KB and Beverley, the other side to that is that it does make the forum a more active place and brings in new members. I think the main reason DD works is because it's attached to the DD scripts help section-- that brings in a lot of new people, and otherwise it wouldn't really be set apart from other web design sites (not that I'm saying it's not better than many of them-- I think it is).
I agree though that it's nice to chat with the regular users and get to know people a bit more than just talking about code (or whatever the topic may be).

There are 85,513 posts in dd scripts help currently, and 121,697 posts in all the other forums combined. Draw your own conclusions from that.


ajfmrf, I don't know about the fonts. I haven't experienced that. Is there any chance you're unintentionally zooming in with the trackpad? I know that at least on a mac if you move your thumbs to the wrong spot while typing once in a while a "gesture" can occur on the trackpad-- for me the most common issue is inadvertently going 'back' in the browser while typing a reply to a post. If not, this is something ddadmin should know. I can't replicate it (on a mac).

If the control key is stuck down for some reason and you scroll, that can cause zooming. That's the only thing I can think of, check your control key.

[keyboard]

I thought you got ip banned from vb forums?


Nope.

[traq]

I thought you got ip banned from vb forums?
Nope.
At least, not with the IP he's on now http://custom-anything.com/images/devil.gif

[keyboard]

At least, not with the IP he's on now http://custom-anything.com/images/devil.gif
Pretty much. :cool:

[bernie1227]

Well, he got banned for a rather amusing post, keyboard might still have a copy lying around.

[Beverleyh]

Was keebs being naughty?

The stats were interesting - I think I was only a few weeks from shoe-horning myself back into 'active users' at that point too (damn the sis for being poorly and ruining my flow!)

I wonder what % of members are women? It puzzles me why IT roles are still so heavily male-dominated, even in this day and age. I'm the only IT lass where I work and I don't think my workplace has ever been visited by an external lady IT technician in the 5 years that I've worked there. Still get the occasional muppet on the other end of the phone who refers to me as the receptionist too... even though they've just been transferred from reception :/

[bernie1227]

Was keebs being naughty?

He was indeed, the one part I do remember of the post was:


ma site (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Danwy2MPT5RE)

Which was surprisingly witty for the odd bit of spot spamming.


The stats were interesting - I think I was only a few weeks from shoe-horning myself back into 'active users' at that point too (damn the sis for being poorly and ruining my flow!)

I think apachetech left around the same time I posted that. Maybe he wasn't into "commitment"?


I wonder what % of members are women? It puzzles me why IT roles are still so heavily male-dominated, even in this day and age. I'm the only IT lass where I work and I don't think my workplace has ever been visited by an external lady IT technician in the 5 years that I've worked there. Still get the occasional muppet on the other end of the phone who refers to me as the receptionist too... even though they've just been transferred from reception :/
Of the regular members? Probably 0%. I think the guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/oct/01/so-few-women-working-technology) did a thing on it.

[keyboard]

Was keebs being naughty?
Hehehehehe



The stats were interesting - I think I was only a few weeks from shoe-horning myself back into 'active users' at that point too (damn the sis for being poorly and ruining my flow!)

I wonder what % of members are women? It puzzles me why IT roles are still so heavily male-dominated, even in this day and age. I'm the only IT lass where I work and I don't think my workplace has ever been visited by an external lady IT technician in the 5 years that I've worked there. Still get the occasional muppet on the other end of the phone who refers to me as the receptionist too... even though they've just been transferred from reception :/
It is a bit odd.... personally, I'd say that men are viewed as more computery than women just because of steryotypes (I'm definetely not agreeing with this though).
How many female hard core gamers are there when compared with males... same thing.


Edit -
Epic fail cross post...
But just to be pedantic... the link was ma site (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE) (I'm fairly sure)


the one part I do remember of the post was:
I'm fairly sure he remembers a great deal more of the post.... including the username of the poster in question, but we wont go there as to stop this thread getting even more distracted... (take the hint bernie :p)

[djr33]

Well, historically there's a connection between old large machines (eg, power tools, factories, etc.) and the evolution to computers.

As for the moment, I think it's at least party due to men (probably more relevantly boys) being interested in things like Sci-fi, etc. But that also does seem to be changing-- looking at the fan base for various new Sci-fi movies/tv shows. Overall, I wonder if the nerdiness of women is catching up to the nerdiness of men... haha.

(On the other end of things, it is the case that at least for a while, secretaries were the only ones who could type well-- so there are still a few 50-70 year old men out there who can't type on a computer.)

Personally I think the youth culture being dominated by cell phones, instant messaging, etc., is changing things significantly. But there's still definitely a male factor in the nerdiness of wanting to become a programmer. I wonder if that's something biological (on average of course) or just a historical effect.


(As a sidenote, your story made me think of "The IT Crowd". Do you know the show? It's great. But perhaps they do need a woman on the IT side of things in the show who actually knows what she's doing...)



Cross-post edit:

How many female hard core gamers are there when compared with males... same thing. That's interesting. And it seems true. But there's also evidence to the contrary-- a good friend of mine in high school met his girlfriend (now wife) playing WoW or something like that online. And I've heard that kind of story enough to think it's not all that rare-- there are female gamers out there. I wonder how many...

[bernie1227]

Personally I think the youth culture being dominated by cell phones, instant messaging, etc., is changing things significantly.

Ahh, now I think I may disagree there. The fact that younger people these days (even being nicknamed the thumb generation, for texting) use all the latest technology more often, doesn't mean that they will want to become software engineers or computer scientists. I suppose it's the idea that you can use a tool without caring how it was made. For example, a lot of people use cutlery to eat, but how many of those people think about, or if they do, really care how these things are made? So if you get a whole bunch of people using an instant messaging service, very few of them are going to look up how it was made, furthermore, caring enough to really get embroiled into the world of programming. Back to the cutlery, most people don't use cutlery and then say, "I want to make cutlery for a living", as is with technology. Most teens won't say, "gee, I really like Facebook, so I'm going to learn php", however much they may use it. Most just see it as a tool. Another point is, that where many professions may be glorified via the media, for example, people may watch csi or bones, and then think about becoming crime scene investigators or forensic anthropologists, but people dont do that with programming. If anything, the media has associated programming with "hacking", "nerdiness" (nerd being a term coined by Dr. Seuss (just a bit of trivia)), or fraud. Even with fraud and hacking in movies, you watch oceans 11 and you want to be George Clooney, not Eddie Jemison. Anyway, that's my $0.02 on the matter.

[djr33]

I didn't say all of them are going to become programmers. But you need to start by having familiarity with computers and working your way up to productive programming-- being able to touch type (which I'd say is fairly normal for all kinds now) is going to help, along with just knowing how to use a computer in general. Due to that, girls and boys will both be exposed, which may make it so that the girls start to catch up in terms of interest.

I don't really get your food metaphor. But sure, let's go with it-- do you think that no one has become a chef, or food critic, or farmer because they like food? Obviously not everyone. But some people?

[keyboard]

Another point is, that where many professions may be glorified via the media, for example, people may watch csi or bones, and then think about becoming crime scene investigators or forensic anthropologists

I can vouch for that... the exact thing happend to a family member.

I have to disagree with you there Daniel. Just because people use something often doesn't mean they're remotely interested in what makes it tick or the more complex stuff you can do with it.
I have a pile of friends who use a computer daily, but have never even heard of the cmd.
Another example is facebook security settings, people use it without even bothering to change them. They don't even bother to explore the additional settings offered to them.

[djr33]

Those counterexamples are entirely irrelevant. I'm talking about a small percentage of people, obviously.

What I'm saying is that the access to the computer (even in a relatively non-technical way) also gives potential access to programming and so forth.

It's the same as advertising-- do you think that a Coke commercial makes every single viewer drink Coke? No, of course not, and the company doesn't believe that either. But what is the case, and is the reason that ads exist, is that some people who see the commercial buy the product. Simple as that.

[bernie1227]

I didn't say all of them are going to become programmers.

I didn't say none of them would, I'm just saying that just because they all interact with computers, it might not make an obvious change in the number of programmers.


I don't really get your food metaphor. But sure, let's go with it-- do you think that no one has become a chef, or food critic, or farmer because they like food? Obviously not everyone. But some people?

The point with my food metaphor, was that people working with computers should yield the same number of people becoming programmers as people becoming chefs, however, many people will have watched masterchef and the like on tv, which may influence them. How many programming competitions are there on tv?




Another example is facebook security settings, people use it without even bothering to change them. They don't even bother to explore the additional settings offered to them.
That's actually a good point. I'd be willing to bet money that less than 5% of Facebook users understand/care what the little checkbox saying secure http means, however vital it may be to their accounts security.

[djr33]

My entire point was that programming is becoming less of a specialized thing. It's something that is relatively more accessible than it was before-- because people are exposed to computers, yes even if that's facebook with the wrong security settings (and I'm well aware of that, and I agree).

And therefore, I think that the percentage of women involved in programming might go up-- they're just one step closer (already being familiar with computers), so why wouldn't more of them end up as programmers?
Or do you think that there's something naturally "male" (culturally? biologically?) about programming?

Over the past ten years, do you not think the number of programmers has gone up?


(By the way, with the hundreds of millions of users on facebook, even 1% would be a significant change in the numbers, or distribution, of programmers.)

[bernie1227]

Those counterexamples are entirely irrelevant. I'm talking about a small percentage of people, obviously.

What I'm saying is that the access to the computer (even in a relatively non-technical way) also gives potential access to programming and so forth.

While it does give potential access, as keyboard said (making his counter example about the cmd not irrelevant), it doesn't mean people are going to use it.


But what is the case, and is the reason that ads exist, is that some people who see the commercial buy the product. Simple as that.
Pretty irrelevant by me, but it's not as simple as that. The idea of advertisements is to get the product associated with the brand in the viewers head. Essentially brand promotion. So when the viewer realises they need detergent or whatever, and the only detergent they've seen ads for is mr. Dishwash for example, they're going to go with that, not some obscure brand they haven't heard of.

[djr33]

While it does give potential access, as keyboard said (making his counter example about the cmd not irrelevant), it doesn't mean people are going to use it. Not even some people?


Pretty irrelevant by me, but it's not as simple as that. The idea of advertisements is to get the product associated with the brand in the viewers head. Essentially brand promotion. So when the viewer realises they need detergent or whatever, and the only detergent they've seen ads for is mr. Dishwash for example, they're going to go with that, not some obscure brand they haven't heard of. Sure. Sounds fine to me-- and when people think about what to do, is one of the first things that comes to mind doing something on the computer? And for some of them that wouldn't translate to a potential career or potential hobby?

*shrug*

Believe what you'd like. It's not really worth us debating on this one. (But your arguments seem illogical to me, just for the record.)

[bernie1227]

My entire point was that programming is becoming less of a specialized thing. It's something that is relatively more accessible than it was before-- because people are exposed to computers, yes even if that's facebook with the wrong security settings (and I'm well aware of that, and I agree).

Once again, people are exposed to cutlery, but that doesn't meant that cutlery making is less of a specialised thing. Computers are taken for granted. The fact that everyone opuses them does not make anymore people think about how they work than before.


Or do you think that there's something naturally "male" (culturally? biologically?) about programming?
[/quote]
I think it's, as you said before with the powertools, considered quite in-feminine to be a programmer. It's purely a social thing. Thinking back to the kindergarten social system, all the girls will mostly like pink and purple and boys will mostly like blue and green. However childish that idea is, it survives in this idea. It's just not common to have a girl who likes programming. As the article I linked to said, only 17% of programmers are women.

[bernie1227]

Not even some people?

Of course some people will, but a very small amount.


Sure. Sounds fine to me-- and when people think about what to do, is one of the first things that comes to mind doing something on the computer? And for some of them that wouldn't translate to a potential career or potential hobby?

Once again, yes, some people will, but my point is that the fact that more people use computers doesn't mean that more people will become programmers


*shrug*

Believe what you'd like. It's not really worth us debating on this one. (But your arguments seem illogical to me, just for the record.)
Yes, I'd rather drop the debate, as all of these posts are cross posts and its very hard arguing points that people made several minutes ago.

[djr33]

Ok, so you think that the 17% will remain stable? Will the social factors change? Why? And is there more than just something social-- there are biological differences. Part of it might be something about men liking to take things apart and fix them-- I think there's a bit more to that than just social convention. (And there are going to obviously be exceptions, but statistically I wouldn't be surprised if, ignoring society, more men than women liked programming.)



Once again, people are exposed to cutlery, but that doesn't meant that cutlery making is less of a specialised thing. Computers are taken for granted. The fact that everyone opuses them does not make anymore people think about how they work than before.It's such a bizarre comparison, though. Who likes cutlery? Who makes it? Of the 7 people out there who make spoons, who's to say that they weren't influenced by using spoons? Did it convince the rest of us to make spoons? No. But those 7? I guess so. You can't rule that out.
If nothing else, the widespread use of something (spoons, computers, whatever) affects demand-- and when demand goes up, so does supply-- more programmers are thus needed. One way or the other...

[bernie1227]

If nothing else, the widespread use of something (spoons, computers, whatever) affects demand-- and when demand goes up, so does supply-- more programmers are thus needed. One way or the other...
Even as you say, demand effects the number of programmers more, rather than the number of young people who use computers. (Although it becomes rather complicated there as the demand == number of people using the computers, so the supply and demand are both coming from the same place)

[djr33]

Of course some people will, but a very small amount.Exactly. There is a small amount ;)


Even as you say, demand effects the number of programmers more, rather than the number of young people who use computers. (Although it becomes rather complicated there as the demand == number of people using the computers, so the supply and demand are both coming from the same place) True. But that doesn't exclude that some of them end up wanting to be programmers because they become aware of it-- for example, the three of us having found this site. For me, I ended up becoming a programmer for a few reasons, but all based on finding out information on the internet-- finding online filmmaking, starting to make my own films, starting to make some basic websites (for a purpose, not for fun) and then finding myself involved in web design and especially DD. And now I'm, more or less, a programmer. There are a lot of hobby programmers out there, and some of them end up doing it as a career too.

[bernie1227]

I've forgotten what the argument is, I vote for a ceasefire.

[keyboard]

I love watching you guys "stop debating"...
It's like when someone posts "Last comment wins" on facebook.

[bernie1227]

It's like when someone posts "Last comment wins" on facebook.

I've actually never seen that.

[Beverleyh]

Ha, ha - I leave the scene for a few hours to wash my hair, tart-up and drive to work, and just look at all the worms that wriggled from that can. :)

I read to page 5 just now and thought "stick a fork in me - I'm done". Rather apt for the way the line of conversation was going, but maybe too provocative for B & D - I'm sure I'd get a slap if their arms were long enough.

I enjoyed the Guardian article Bernie. I suppose the whole computing scene is much less feminine and glamourous than some of the careers that are 'aimed' at impressionable young people in the media today. Thinking about "The IT Crowd" (one of my fave shows Dan) - much of the stereotype is of geeky, socially-awkward men who are holed away somewhere in a back office. There is very little attraction in that for young girls - they see much more appeal in fantasising themselves in the fashion editor/glamourous PR assistant/feminine-wiles-working Lois Lane reporter/high-flying lady media mogul roles, etc, that seem to be the only things pushed at them in magazines and popular teenage TV shows. But that's where the TV bods get their viewing figures right? It being easier to ride on the existing wave of popularity that these "safe" female roles have established than push boundaries and raise awareness in other areas. That would just be TOO risky - the teen girls wouldn't "identify" as easily and they'd lose ratings. It's just a vicious circle.

Peer pressure doesn't help in the classroom and lunchtime clubs either - the clubs are almost entirely made up of boys. The difference is that students take compulsory IT qualifications in school now so the classrooms see a more even split in numbers. There's still a marked difference in ability though and I suppose that isnt helped by the cliques that emerge. Ive noticed it overflowing a lot into other forums (not DD) - where the replies just seem to be a barrage of comments aimed to belittle and intimidate newbies. There's a big "I know more than you and I'm going out of my way to prove it" mentality, which seems to start very early on in the classroom - the boys stick together in their safe little techno-group and the girls either get jovially teased and pushed away (still taking a hit to confidence) or getting totally ripped to shreds when their technical expertise is doubted.

It was the visual aspect that got me interested in web development to begin with - I wanted to put pretty artwork on the internet. I guess that's where many women stop - in the designer role - but it wasnt enough for me. I kept asking "how" and "why" because I wanted to understand what this techno-malarkey was all about :) Im still not as "code-y" as some of you guys, but I'm getting there.

[djr33]

Hm. So you don't think it's starting to even out? I think it is, probably slowly. But I also don't think it'll ever necessarily end up at a 50/50 split.

Interestingly if you look at TV shows, there's a big trend to have a woman as the main tech support person (especially in police/crime shows).

[jscheuer1]

I would like to correct something I think was said here recently to the effect that we have 0% female regulars. Unless I was misunderstanding, Beverleyh is more than 0%.

And we do get a lot of female participants here. Definitely not a 50/50 split, though. I'd say its closer to 30/70.

If you only count participants who're legible and seem sincere, that might be closer to 40/60.

I agree that nerdy female role models on TV are increasing. That's probably both a reflection of and a spur to conditions in the "real world".

And I cringed a little reading what Beverleyh said about her workplace. That must be at least a little disconcerting, especially the part about being mistaken for the receptionist -

"Please hold . . ." (15 minutes later) "OK it's really me now."

Or (for repeat offenders):

"Just a minute, I'll connect you." (hangs up the phone)

[bernie1227]

I would like to correct something I think was said here recently to the effect that we have 0% female regulars. Unless I was misunderstanding, Beverleyh is more than 0%.

And we do get a lot of female participants here. Definitely not a 50/50 split, though. I'd say its closer to 30/70.

If you only count participants who're legible and seem sincere, that might be closer to 40/60.

We were actually referring the number of regulars at the time I wrote the dd statistics thread, at which time Beverly was not regularly visiting.

[james438]

I agree with Beverly's sentiment (correct me if I am wrong here) that guys and girls are different. We think differently from each other and are culturally different as well. This has led to a greater ratio of guys to girls in the coding market and a lack of of interest from women to the prospect of becoming a coder. I don't believe that it is all cultural either. Men and women's brains are wired differently. Obviously this doesn't mean that all men hate being receptionists or that all women will hate working in a steel mill, but the desire for men to be a receptionist is less than for women and vice versa for the steel mill.

That's my best guess on the matter. That being said I have seen my fair share of female coders on this site as well. Much less than male coders though. As far as regular coders go on this site there are not too terrible many and we are quite happy that Beverly is one of them, partly because she is a girl :).

[djr33]

Statistically, it's still quite low. In terms of regular users, there's Beverley and Kuau who come to mind for me, and looking at the stats for all users with >100 posts, there are a total of 156 users, 6 of whom I believe are women. It's possible that I'm missing some due to anonymity, but it's still fairly low.

So if that's a reasonable approximation, based on "regulars" = 100+ posts, 3.8% of our users are women.

Interestingly they're fairly evenly distributed, so that ~3-4% seems stable. For example, just looking at the list of highest post count until Beverley (so there's one female user), it's 3.7% female-- 27 users, one of whom is a woman.

(And I agree about Beverley's story-- must be very frustrating. I can't say I'm all that surprised though-- the cultural stereotypes are pretty strong.)

[bernie1227]

As best as I can think of:
Male dominated industries:
accounting and finance
IT
Engineering
Maths?
Science?
law enforcement
politics
Construction/trades

Female dominated industries:
Nursing
Communications/public relations
Primary school teaching
HR
Accounting

[james438]

Thank you for that list. I was trying to think which ones were typically male or female dominated. The accounting one surprised me though. I tend to think of that one as being male dominated. I am not familiar with accounting though. It sounds incredibly boring as a career.

[bernie1227]

After looking up the stats, in the U.S.A, something around 60% of accountants are female.

[ajfmrf]

how did this thread turn to this?

[bernie1227]

In short, because I inked to the dd stats thread and beverly's post:


I wonder what % of members are women? It puzzles me why IT roles are still so heavily male-dominated, even in this day and age. I'm the only IT lass where I work and I don't think my workplace has ever been visited by an external lady IT technician in the 5 years that I've worked there. Still get the occasional muppet on the other end of the phone who refers to me as the receptionist too... even though they've just been transferred from reception :/

You're lucky you didn't see Keyboard and my conversation which was deleted because it was so pointless.

[james438]

Welcome to the lounge! :)

[bernie1227]

The lounge: A place to hijack threads with no fear of retribution.

[Beverleyh]

Hm. So you don't think it's starting to even out? I think it is, probably slowly. But I also don't think it'll ever necessarily end up at a 50/50 split.

Interestingly if you look at TV shows, there's a big trend to have a woman as the main tech support person (especially in police/crime shows).

I agree that nerdy female role models on TV are increasing. That's probably both a reflection of and a spur to conditions in the "real world".
Yes, I agree that things are starting to even out in the general scope of TV - I know there are some technical/nerdy woman on the US shows that we get over here - NCIS/CSI and Big Bang Theory spring to mind right away - and of course we have our British equivalents, but I was kinda meaning the shows that are specifically aimed at impressionable youngsters. Some of those US dramas are on quite late at night and require much more thought than the average British teen can muster after a hard days texting ;)

There's a show on at dinner time here that pops into my head that is aimed at a younger crowd - one of those "dont have to think about anything and I can look at the nice clothes" type soaps. The main female characters there comprise of tarty barmaid, sugar-sweet beautician, caring nurse, sassy night-club owner, catty coffee shop waitress, glamorous footballer's wife, trendy teacher and ditsy shop assistant. You can bet that they're all wearing 6inch heels and false eyelashes too (OK, maybe not the nurse, but her uniform is still rather tight).


I agree with Beverly's sentiment (correct me if I am wrong here) that guys and girls are different. We think differently from each other and are culturally different as well... Men and women's brains are wired differently....
Yes, that's true - nature and nurture traditionally tends to lead us down more caring/mothering/social paths.


how did this thread turn to this?
Sorry about that ajfmrf - I think that's just the way that the conversation evolved while you werent here. Just leap back in and steer it back on track.

[keyboard]

The lounge: A place to hijack threads with no fear of retribution.

Not neccasarily...

Soz about changing the topic so much ajfmrf... I've noticed we've actually done that a fair bit recentely (a pile of the "regulars" get into a discussion in the middle of a thread)
If you have a problem about it, just let us know and I'm sure we can work something out :) (this discussions just about died (or has it), but we could move it to a new thread)

[bernie1227]

Not neccasarily...


It might be sensible to split the thread and amalgamate it with the dd social thread.

[ajfmrf]

On the other hand,it is always cool to see a thread become so largely posted as this is...lol

[djr33]

In fact, this all should be in the social thread (including the first post), at least if that's going to catch on. (It doesn't hurt anything that it's not there, though.)

I think the whole topic became "ajfmrf reached 300 posts, so how's everything going?", and clearly this is how it's going ;)



Beverley, don't forget about other shows with the female nerd character-- the best example is probably Criminal Minds, with the tech support woman who's simultaneously only-fictionally-possibly great at all things on a computer and obsessed with "girly" things like pink furry pencils and makeup. That character, along with the one from NCIS (and probably a few other shows I'm forgetting about) seems like a fairly standard character now, part of the mainstream set of media expectation.

But you're right about shows like soaps-- but is that surprising? Isn't everything about those shows a bit exaggerated? Everything's a stereotype and overacted-- so having stereotypical women in them just seems natural to me. (And it's a separate question whether or not you like them, of course.)