General Pointers for Budding Web Designers

[Twey]

http://catb.org/~esr/html-hell.html

In Eric Raymond's inimitably blunt style, lists several things you should never, ever do when designing a web page. I would probably have written it with more tact, and I don't agree with the guestbook comments, but it's essentially brilliant, a good guide for newbies, and a great laugh for we who have suffered way too much of this kind of thing. If you're easily offended, don't read. :p

[mwinter]

http://catb.org/~esr/html-hell.htmlThat's a fairly good list, though it would be nice if there were reasons (perhaps in another location) so that it didn't read as a rant. For instance, my problem with marquee elements (and similar effects, in general) is that missing an item means I have to wait for it to reappear. The constant motion can also be very distracting (ditto blink and excessive animation).


[...] I don't agree with the guestbook comments [...]I suppose that part of it is authors pleading, "Please write in my guestbook!", as though the reader has some obligation to do so. His observation is generally correct, though: most guestbooks are a waste of space as many sites that use them don't warrant comment, don't attract any, and discussions with the author are easier through e-mail anyway.

Mike

[Twey]

Oh yes, but Raymond appears to be stating that guestbooks are always a bad idea. Something discreetly tucked away in a corner on a site that actually has something worth commenting upon is a different matter altogether.

so that it didn't read as a rant.
It is (essentially) a rant. I just thought it happened to be a remarkably accurate and generally amusing rant.

[moscarda]

The Web is supposed to be about viewer control; designers who persist in rudely grabbing pieces of the viewer's screenspace without permission deserve to be lashed with knouts.


this gets back to our other thread, twey. i agree with most of this list, but i really have a problem with this one. sure, the web is about viewer control, fine. but thats pretty black and white. i think its really a question of context. if someone is going to your website, they are choosing to do so. you are inviting them into your space. if they don't like it, they can leave. my problem with this list and with a lot of web design rhetoric is that it assumes designers should kiss their audiences asses. no, i dissagree with that. any artist will inevitably be loved, hated, talked about, or ignored, no matter what they do. i'd rather not waste time worrying about it, and just make the sites i want to make. sometimes art is supposed to be obnoxious, sometimes beautiful. what fun would it be if everyone liked the same thing and followed "rules" of design?

[Twey]

any artist will inevitably be loved, hated, talked about, or ignored, no matter what they do. i'd rather not waste time worrying about it, and just make the sites i want to make. sometimes art is supposed to be obnoxious, sometimes beautiful.A totally inappropriate analogy. If you wish to make a website that is deliberately ugly, that's your style decision. No problem with that. Making badly-coded sites, or certain "style" decisions (fixed-size windows, setting colours unwisely...), however, doesn't just potentially offend users who view it; it stops some viewers from seeing it altogether. It's like saying "you can only view this painting if you are a white male." You can make it in whatever style you want, but you shouldn't restrict its viewing to only part of the population through bad design that can easily be avoided.

[dansien]

Hello all,

I am definitely a newbie to creating websites and all so please bare with me ok? Anyways ... I'm trying to create a simple webpage. I have an account with freewebs, and I created a domain name for myself with them because as I understand you DO need one of those right?? I then created a simple webpage using microsoft word. What I want to do is take that webpage and merge it with my domain name ... I think ... Is there anyone that is very familiar with freewebs that can help me out? I'm not sure if I'm doing anything right! LOL

[Twey]

I think you need a paid account with freewebs for domain support. Don't do it, get a real hosting account.

Never, ever, ever design pages in a word processor. http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp

[moscarda]

A It's like saying "you can only view this painting if you are a white male." You can make it in whatever style you want, but you shouldn't restrict its viewing to only part of the population through bad design that can easily be avoided.

what? that is not at all what i am saying. i didn't really mean to argue, because it is an argument that nobody can ever "win". i really don't believe that one can ever say something is good or bad art/design. its a question of personal taste. sure, you say, there are tried and true "rules" of design, that when followed, can produce decent results. but what we're calling decent here, might look hideous to someone else, no matter what demographic they fall under.

yes, i agree, coding is another story.

[Twey]

there are tried and true "rules" of design, that when followed, can produce decent results.There are very few "tried and true rules of design," in my experience, that exist only for purely stylistic reasons, and I would certainly never pass on such a "rule." They tend to have their roots in accessibility.

[djr33]

Generally related to the topic, not so much to the above posts, but whatever...

My best advice is don't do anything that is trying to control the person's browser and/or system too much.

Like not right clicking, like not being able to save a picture, like needing the window to be a certain size and/or position, etc. etc.

Rarely works, and usually causes problems for the users.

[Freeman]

I liked it. It gives all the things that most kids around the age of 14 think is the coolest thing in the world. Bringing up myspace (a nasty whirlpool of death) some peoples pages are so flashy, marked with marquee's, and have un readable text. Dosen't make me want to stay on their site to long, and it sure dosen't make for anything good for professional sites. If you do use any of them use very moderately, so as not to make them distracted from your content. I did think it was rather funny though.