New Site

[mburt]

Hello,

I launched another website recently (well, last night actually) and I think the design is pretty good. Please tell me what you think!
http://mburt.xtreemhost.com/

Thanks,
Mike

[Medyman]

Congrats! It's pretty good (for a developer :p).

[mburt]

Haha thanks... Yeah I'm not really much for the design aspect of things. I'm more of the "raw" coder type. The special thing about this website, is that I manage the entire website with an application I built for it (located at mburt.xtreemhost.com/editor).

[Medyman]

Haha thanks... Yeah I'm not really much for the design aspect of things. I'm more of the "raw" coder type. The special thing about this website, is that I manage the entire website with an application I built for it (located at mburt.xtreemhost.com/editor).

Custom CMS? Cool!
What's it built on? PHP?

I tried and failed miserably at home-made CMS apps. There is also so much to do and not enough time. Until a few months ago, we used to roll out custom CMS's for all of our client sites. What a pain!! I wish there were better open source ones out there.

[mburt]

What's it built on? PHP?

Yep it is. I designed it completely on my WAMP server (yes, Windows... I know) here on my computer. Then all I did was copied over the folder "editor/" to my FTP server. It's pretty awesome. I can create/delete/modify files, and my index file (that I created with the editor :P) automatically detects them in the "pages/" folder. The menu links are populated by that folder, so everything is automatic.

[Medyman]

Yep it is. I designed it completely on my WAMP server (yes, Windows... I know) here on my computer. Then all I did was copied over the folder "editor/" to my FTP server. It's pretty awesome. I can create/delete/modify files, and my index file (that I created with the editor :P) automatically detects them in the "pages/" folder. The menu links are populated by that folder, so everything is automatic.

I'm a Windows/WAMP guy too. It's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Though, I'm thinking my next computer is going to be a Mac.

Out of curiosity, have you tried any of the PHP frameworks? My PHP skills kind of suck, so I'm trying to pick them up. The CMS that I use (ExpressionEngine (http://www.expressionengine.com/index.php?affiliate=visualbinary)) is releasing a new version in the coming months that's 100% powered on the CodeIgniter (http://codeigniter.com/) framework. I've heard amazing things about it and plan to take the dive soon. Any recommendations for a amateur PHP coder heading into MVC frameworks?

[mburt]

I'm a Windows/WAMP guy too. It's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

I know, it's pretty good.


Out of curiosity, have you tried any of the PHP frameworks?

I'm not much for frameworks, to be honest. I think I used one once, for a BBCode type thing. I always build my own set of functions, and use them as "frameworks", I guess you could call it.

I took a quick look at CodeIgniter then, and it seems to be very promising. I'm going to try it out, actually. So I'll let you know.

[Twey]

I generally end up building my own lightweight MVC framework when forced to work with PHP. I have a template that I use, with Smarty, Propel, and my own routing module.
Any recommendations for a amateur PHP coder heading into MVC frameworks?Yes — run from PHP while you still can :) In seriousness, all the MVC frameworks I've come across seem to be object-oriented, but unfortunately PHP's clunkiness and inflexibility with OO make it difficult to do this without introducing quite a bit of boilerplate into the codebase, hence my custom framework which avoids OO for the controllers (only one is ever going to be called per request, anyway; OO adds too much overhead to be viable).

If you wish to learn the 'proper' OO way of doing MVC, move away from PHP and switch to a more powerful language such as Python or Ruby. Python has a plethora of OO MVC web frameworks (I recommend Pylons+SQLAlchemy+Genshi, but Django might be easier for the beginner), and Ruby has a few, of which Ruby on Rails is the most popular (although also quite rubbish, in my opinion; it will, nevertheless, teach you how the MVC pattern works in practice).

[mburt]

Yes — run from PHP while you still can :)

Haha, I completely agree. I've been trying to move on to another server-side language, but I haven't had the time. I glanced at Ruby (on rails) for a bit, and realized how messy PHP was, without "proper" OO coding, I guess you could call it.

However, I am soon going to attempt to learn Python. The only problem for me with these languages, is that not many free web hosts (without ads), support such languages. And generally, I am on a tight budget, so I'm not really willing to spend money for a "testing" website.

[Medyman]

Yes — run from PHP while you still can :)

Unfortunately, this isn't practical in my case.

[Twey]

I don't know about free, but A Small Orange (http://asmallorange.com/) provides Django-capable hosting for USD$25 per year.

[tfit]

Haha, I completely agree. I've been trying to move on to another server-side language, but I haven't had the time. I glanced at Ruby (on rails) for a bit, and realized how messy PHP was, without "proper" OO coding, I guess you could call it.

However, I am soon going to attempt to learn Python. The only problem for me with these languages, is that not many free web hosts (without ads), support such languages. And generally, I am on a tight budget, so I'm not really willing to spend money for a "testing" website.

I too looked at ruby and got completely lost in the code, python was easier to set up, but getting it to connect to mysql never really worked.

[Medyman]

I don't know about free, but A Small Orange (http://asmallorange.com/) provides Django-capable hosting for USD$25 per year.

Speaking of Django... Twey, any thoughts on it?

[Twey]

I too looked at ruby and got completely lost in the code, python was easier to set up, but getting it to connect to mysql never really worked.Tech forum hot tip: 'it doesn't work' does not describe a problem :) What were you using? What did you do? What happened? What error message(s) did you get?
Speaking of Django... Twey, any thoughts on it?Django's OK. It's all a bit monolithic for me, but so long as you don't want to change anything it's a fairly decent platform, and it's certainly easier for the newbie to set up than Pylons.

[tfit]

Tech forum hot tip: 'it doesn't work' does not describe a problem :) What were you using? What did you do? What happened? What error message(s) did you get?

when loading the database library my system crashed

[boogyman]

I use OOP PHP on one of my current sites, mainly because that was how the previous coder set it up.

The system that he built doesn't appear to have too much overhead, i seen an article couple months ago about how OOP in php on average takes 5 times longer than it would not using OOP methodologies

in any event, I have started to dabble in Python, so ill get back to you on what i think about that.

[Twey]

when loading the database library my system crashedSounds like you got a corrupted database library, or perhaps linked against a wrong version of Python or MySQL.

[mburt]

Okay, some site updates. Fully functional user registration system now. Pretty cool.
http://www.mburt.xtreemhost.com/

[mburt]

Ok... for some reason xtreemhost totally died on me. New url:

http://mburt.sytes.net/

[Twey]

Connection refused.

Get a Small Orange account already :rolleyes:

[mburt]

Hm it should be up and fine now. I have no clue what Small Orange is, by the way.

[Twey]

Oh, I thought you were the OP of a post where I mentioned it earlier... talking about MVC and Django? Well anyway... http://www.asmallorange.com/ — PHP/Python hosting, $25/year ($2/month), no setup fees.

Also, no, still can't connect.

[mburt]

Would it make a difference if I told you I am running a WAMP server? Whereas I know you're running a Linux (Although, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't make a difference).

EDIT:

And the whole django thing... I'm not really committed to spending money into a website (even though it's only $2 a month).

[Twey]

No, mburt, though it might explain why it's apparently crashing repeatedly.
And the whole django thing... I'm not really committed to spending money into a website (even though it's only $2 a month).Oh, it was you, then? Well, either way it seems you're having difficulty finding sane hosting. ASO would guarantee that, and it's pretty much fire-and-forget (even though I said $2/month, the billing cycle is yearly — USD$25).

[mburt]

Oh, it was you, then? Well, either way it seems you're having difficulty finding sane hosting.

Haha, yes it is very hard. But I haven't even the slightest clue how to use the Django MVC.

BTW, Are you clicking the new link I posted?

[Twey]

Yes. http://mburt.sytes.net/.

There's a tutorial on http://www.djangoproject.com/. Until you're familiar with it, you can just copy your existing site across (there's PHP support, too).

[mburt]

Until you're familiar with it, you can just copy your existing site across (there's PHP support, too).

Cool... I have a question though. I have a fully functional site written in PHP, yet you're saying that django is somehow better? I'm not arguing with you and saying that it isn't better, but I just don't see a valid reason to change right now.

[Twey]

Considerably better — more flexible, better organised, nicer to develop in, &c. I was going on the assumption that it was you who was wanting to learn to develop using an MVC framework, though. Set it up on your local machine, run through the tutorial, see what you think.

Either way, ASO will give you cheap, stable PHP hosting too, which you seem to be having difficulties finding at the moment.

[mburt]

which you seem to be having difficulties finding at the moment.
It's like you can read my mind.


I was going on the assumption that it was you who was wanting to learn to develop using an MVC framework, though.

I do actually... It's just whether I have the time or not to learn it/play around with it.

[Twey]

Well, it's a fairly good price for even just decent PHP hosting. If you never get around to setting up/using Django, you've still got a bargain on that.

[mburt]

Yeah, it is. I don't know why my site isn't working now (for you)... It works fine for me. Weird.

[Twey]

I've had some other people check it, too, and they were also incapable of connecting.

[mburt]

Hmm it might be my .htaccess file. Well I removed a 301 redirect line, try it now.

[mburt]

Here's the .htaccess file:


RewriteEngine on
RewriteRule ^([^/\.]+)/?$ index.php?q=$1 [L]
RewriteRule ^([^/\.]+)/([^/\.]+)/?$ index.php?q=$1&s=$2 [L]
RewriteRule ^([^/\.]+)/([^/\.]+)/([^/\.]+)/?$ index.php?q=$1&s=$2&pg=$3 [L]

Yeah, I basically copied it straight from a page on the internet, so I'm not sure how good or bad it is.

[Twey]

Still no. I repeat, this is a denied connection: we are unable to even connect to your webserver, it has nothing to do with whatever may be on said server.

[mburt]

Wow, what a rip-off. I should start to consider that fruit thingy server you told me about.

[mburt]

Woo, thanks to thetestingsite, I now have a working website. Awesome.
New link:
http://mburt.thetestingsite.net/statistics

[Twey]

Doesn't validate everywhere, no character encoding, and the design is kind of clunky, uses point and pixel sizes :-\ Oh well, at least it more-or-less works now...

[mburt]

I only had to update a couple things. It now validates 4.01 HTML transitional.

[mburt]

What's so bad about using point sizes anyways?

[Twey]

They are designed for print, and can vary quite drastically on-screen.

[mburt]

They are designed for print, and can vary quite drastically on-screen.

Ah, I see... So something like "em" wouldn't?

[Twey]

No, although ems shouldn't be used either due to various bugs in IEs that cause them to be rendered irregularly. It's safest to stick to percentages for fonts.

[mburt]

It's safest to stick to percentages for fonts.
Would've never guessed that. I guess I got used to using point sizes for font from using text editors.

[mburt]

I updated to my own domain name: http://www.mikeburt.net/

Twey, I took your advice and signed up for A Small Orange. I found a discount on the internet too and got 40% off too :D. So that was a nice bonus.

Any recommendations of where I should go from here in regards to the Django thing?

[Twey]

There's a walkthrough of setting it up here (http://wiki.asmallorange.com/HOWTODjangoFastCGI) (you will need shell access: if you don't have it, open a support ticket and they'll give it to you); after that, try the Django docs (http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/), which include a tutorial. If you're not familiar with Python, you should check out Dive Into Python (http://www.diveintopython.org/) first.

[mburt]

Alright thanks man, I'll look into it... I recently sent a ticket for a problem with sub-domains. Any folders within the subdomain folder (public_html/subdomain/folder) won't load their corresponding index file for some reason.

EDIT: It turns out it was my own fault. It had to do with my .htaccess file.

[webdesignernew]

I think you need more images and colour on your site, its a good starting point though.

[Twey]

I read this as 'your page doesn't load slowly enough!'

A site never needs images (for design). They're just eye-candy, and remember that a fair few users can't see them anyway. They increase bandwidth usage quite severely, though, so don't just use them because you want to. If you really need images for your design, then go for it, but don't use them just for the sake of using images -- it's possible to create some very good minimalistic designs with no images at all. Monochromacity is also a valid design choice, although I'll admit it's not particularly well-done here.

My only design complaint is the strange disjointed animation that happens when the page loads. On the technical side, it's using an outdated Transitional DOCTYPE, and there's a bunch of presentational markup in there.

[mburt]

That strange disjointed animation is jQuery lol... Not the best in IE however, but I think it makes the site at least a little bit good :P. I've made some adjustments as well.

What's a "better" DOCTYPE to use then? I didn't realize 4.01 was outdated.

[Twey]

4.01 isn't (thanks to tardy adoption of XHTML); Transitional is. Use Strict.

[mburt]

Yeah... I never really did understand doctypes. When you use strict do you always have to close tags with the trailing "/"? eg, <br />

[Twey]

No, that's XHTML.

[mburt]

Cool. I guess I'll be switching to strict ;)