Do you know the process of...

[Johnnymushio]

Killing the cows, chickens, pigs, etc.

in slaughter houses?

[boogyman]

Google is your friend (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=slaughter+house+process+cows&btnG=Google+Search)

[Johnnymushio]

I already know the process.

I just want to know if you guys do.

And if you still eat beef, pork, chicken, etc. after watching footage of the process.

Stop eating or don't watch this if you have a full stomache.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nckyH4zo14

It's 7:11 minutes long, I think.

I think this is what gave me a headache last night.


Google is your friend (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=slaughter+house+process+cows&btnG=Google+Search)

[BLiZZaRD]

Necessary evils. I want food, I don't want to kill my food. Other people willing to handle the dirty work so I can have my food? Deal!

Too much goodness in meats to stop eating them because of the "process."

I won't turn into a wanna be rabbit, or gerbil and nibble on a side dish because a cow takes it in the head.

"A salad comes WITH a meal, a salad is NOT a meal. A salad is a promissory note that real food is on the way!" - John Pinette in "I'm Starving!" stand up special.

[jscheuer1]

Why not? Vegetables are forced to live their entire lives in a genetically controlled mono-culture. After they are harvested, some are subjected to barbaric treatments like being boiled alive! I assume you still eat those.

I do tend to shy away from (especially) ground beef, and beef in general, for health reasons. Pork has never been a great favorite, though I like some pork products.

If you eat fish, you should see what they do to them, not to mention the countless innocents swept up, killed and discarded in most commercial fishing operations.

This is not to say that I do not support many of the ideas and movements toward more humane treatment of food animals.

But, while things are being improved, I will continue to eat whatever I deem fit, and/or I am willing to take a chance on.

[Trinithis]

Necessary evils. I want food, I don't want to kill my food. Other people willing to handle the dirty work so I can have my food? Deal!
My sentiments exactly.

[djr33]

Meat tastes good. I like it. I eat it. And I don't mind or regret that.
At least we're not walking around and chewing on animal carcasses.

As with what John said, yeah, they could do better, and I'd like that.

I must say, though, I'm more concerned with the practices that are dangerous for humans as well, such as genetic mutation that is dangerous (though it's certainly an interesting and promising science), antibiotics and unsanitary conditions in the slaughter houses.

[Johnnymushio]

meat makes our blood acidic.

calcium neutralizes our blood

only source of calcium in our bodies is from our bones.

also, show me a carnivore that can move its jaw from side to side.

oh and since we are all carnivores. lets go outside, find a squirrel, use our carnivore like speed and claws, chase it down, slit its throat, then eat every piece of meat off of it down to the bone. no tools or cooking, that would be cheating.

and if any of you actually watched the whole video and it did not startle you, then i believe you are a robot.

the video actually gave me a headache last night, and drove me crazyyy

dont wanna go into detail.

now im not gonna stop entirely, but now ill make sure my clothes are not silk leather etc

and stop drinking milk, etc.

goshh i wish this guy could have talked to you for 60 min he did in my class. so convincing. how sanitized pus is in milk, how the animals are kept pregnant their whole lives causes their uterus's to fall out of their body, how they crab tubes through animals throats down to their stomach to fatten them up 10x more than natural.

how all diseases come from meat.

have u ever heard of being having heart attacks from too many apples?

how about too much meat?

its sickening, that video. they TORTURE the animals. its one thing if they just gas them or something, but they beat the hell out of them.

they take lives cows, stab their throats, have the gallons of blood pour down the drain... ahhh SICKENING!

what the hell! how can people do they as their job?

they should go work as a slave at nike before this...

[boogyman]

meat makes our blood acidic.
but it also provides the majority of our daily protein intake.



calcium neutralizes our blood

only source of calcium in our bodies is from our bones.

which among other things comes from dairy... eg cows



oh and since we are all carnivores. lets go outside, find a squirrel, use our carnivore like speed and claws, chase it down, slit its throat, then eat every piece of meat off of it down to the bone. no tools or cooking, that would be cheating.

I realize this is satire, but Humans are actually Omnivores, since we eat both meat and vegetables.



and if any of you actually watched the whole video and it did not startle you, then i believe you are a robot.

its called desensitation... 20 years ago it was taboo to show a toilet in a movie
not to long before that there were nuns as teachers in just about every single school.

while I am not saying its fair... I am saying our perspective on what is morally right will continue to change.



its sickening, that video. they TORTURE the animals. its one thing if they just gas them or something, but they beat the hell out of them.

they take lives cows, stab their throats, have the gallons of blood pour down the drain... ahhh SICKENING!

what the hell! how can people do they as their job?

join an animal rights activism movement?

[djr33]

oh and since we are all carnivores. lets go outside, find a squirrel, use our carnivore like speed and claws, chase it down, slit its throat, then eat every piece of meat off of it down to the bone. no tools or cooking, that would be cheating.Profoundly stupid. Heh. That's exactly why we have meat processing plants and stores.

My mom was doing an all raw foods diet for some time, and it always puzzled me. Should could spend up to 3 hours a day preparing something, much of the time just imitating a real food. (ie, "Carrot Burgers")

Her tastes buds clearly adjusted, as she was very excited to eat things that were quite bland to the tastes of others. Fruit is an obvious example.

She eventually moved on, though is still eating little to no meat, but has since started eating a diet still mainly of salads, but with some cooked content as well.

//shrug

We made fire. We killed beasts. We eat them. We cook them. And, yes, there are many stupid, inhumane (though how important is that if they're going to die anyway?), and disgusting or unhealthy practices related to this.


As a side note, I ordered carpaccio the other day at an italian restaurant and it was strange. Kinda chewy. Disgusting by expectation, but not inherently, just different. I can't say I really liked it. Didn't even finish it. I certainly prefer my meat cooked. But, then again, I'm weird. Many like raw steaks; I like mine microwaved til thoroughly cooked. (I'm serious, too. Though, of course, I mean grilled/etc first.)




There are many things disgusting in life. We either choose to judge them as unfortunately or necessarily acceptable, or as disgusting and "wrong".

To name a few:
Eating fruit/veggies with preservatives and/or dirt on them without proper cleaning.
Chlorine in drinking water.
Sex. (Now, no point getting into a long argument there, but consider it for a minute-- and that we just get over any strange/disgusting aspect, perhaps without even noticing it.)
Shaking hands. (What is it? Like 1/10 wash their hands after using the restroom?)
Public drinking fountains. (Perhaps just a personal thing, but at times, those are by far the most disgusting.)
And, yes, we eat meat.

[Johnnymushio]

im not as good as the guy that spoke to my class. and i do not know as much.

meat is in every way bad for our bodies. of course, people argue that meat is only source of protein. not sure which foods he said, but tons of non-meat products have protein.

as for milk. also bad for body. i knew this before the guy talked to us, all dairy is horrible. besides, they milk the cows and keep the pregnant year round, which causes so many infections in and out of the utters. the infections start oozing out so much pus and the machines dont seperate the milk from the pus, amoung other things, and it all gets poured into the bottles. but at least you can drink it knowing the pus is sanitized.

as for compare the slaughter of millions of animals and fish to chlorine and dirt, they have these places called mental hospitals. i hear they can cure some mental illnesses if not too severe.

still, no one told me they watched the video.


humans have never ate meat until we started using tools and fire.


also, the human intestines are about 25 feet long. there is no carnivore on the planet with intestines of that size.

gosh im reading your guys' arguments, talking about toilets and nuns.

its like, i say we need to stop killing or make the killing painless. then you guys come up with non-sense responses, you should just respond "oh the sky is blue so that means we are supposed to eat meat"

in reality, and you should all agree, we eat it because it is delicious.

very unhealthy.


another thing, about the meat processing plants and stores. thats going against 1 million or so years of evolution. "profoundly stupid"

its pretty scary how you think nothing of the video, and compare it to such things.

guess you wouldnt mind going through that process.

since you dont have horns, i can chop off your ears while you are consious.

then, i can tie you up by your legs and let you move and swing around.

then, i can take a knife, lunge i your throat hoping i hit the main artery. most likly maybe ill miss, so ill go at it again and hope i hit it, then all of your blood will pour out of your throat, THEN you will be unconscious and dead.

[djr33]

another thing, about the meat processing plants and stores. thats going against 1 million or so years of evolution. "profoundly stupid"Well, quite the opposite. It is actually the result of evolution.
However, evolution does, in the end, work to rid the planet of extraneous species, so perhaps we're on our way out, if you want to look at it in that sense.

[Moshambi]

this topic reminded me of a video i came across the other day...check it out here -> http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com

[Twey]

I agree with John (seriously even if he perhaps meant it jokingly), the plants get just as bad a deal out of it as the animals. People only make a fuss about animals because they seem closer to us; nobody goes on about the moral rights of plants, but there's nothing to say that they don't suffer just as much (in fact, there are a few studies that suggest that plants do feel pain).
they take lives cows, stab their throats, have the gallons of blood pour down the drain... ahhh SICKENING!It certainly is! That's good black pudding they're wasting there! :p
As a side note, I ordered carpaccio the other day at an italian restaurant and it was strange. Kinda chewy. Disgusting by expectation, but not inherently, just different. I can't say I really liked it. Didn't even finish it. I certainly prefer my meat cooked. But, then again, I'm weird. Many like raw steaks; I like mine microwaved til thoroughly cooked. (I'm serious, too. Though, of course, I mean grilled/etc first.)I don't eat a lot of meat personally, raw or otherwise, but I am a big fan of sushi.
as for milk. also bad for body. i knew this before the guy talked to us, all dairy is horrible. besides, they milk the cows and keep the pregnant year round, which causes so many infections in and out of the utters. the infections start oozing out so much pus and the machines dont seperate the milk from the pus, amoung other things, and it all gets poured into the bottles. but at least you can drink it knowing the pus is sanitized.Since the pus is sanitised, what's the problem with drinking it?
humans have never ate meat until we started using tools and fire.Not true at all. Even modern simians eat meat.
then, i can take a knife, lunge i your throat hoping i hit the main artery. most likly maybe ill miss, so ill go at it again and hope i hit it, then all of your blood will pour out of your throat, THEN you will be unconscious and dead.Well, if you really needed to eat me to survive, I guess I couldn't judge you for it.

[Johnnymushio]

i prefer water to sanitized pus.

and since when do vegetables have nerve cells?

maybe i should read the news more so i know this stuff.

and the point is, we dont need to raise and kill these cows.

i dont remember the percentages, but it was a number some thing like over 50% of all land is used for cattle, and their crap is the #1 cause of global warming? something like that.

well i thought i would get different responses from "educated" people. but just scary responses.

all i wanted t o know were your opinions, but either i am a bad teacher, your guy's minds are a lil stubburn, or i dunno what.

it makes me think if this was happening to humans and their were healthier alternative painless ways to eat, you still wouldnt care. you would just respond "humans taste good"

but then again, i forget that humans are sooo special and god-like. when i throw that into account, makes me look like an idiot! oh well

[Twey]

i prefer water to sanitized pus.Why? Water, I should point out, is probably largely sanitised urine.
and since when do vegetables have nerve cells?It's not the same as animal pain, but it does exist. See this article (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/08/980806090010.htm).
and the point is, we dont need to raise and kill these cows.

i dont remember the percentages, but it was a number some thing like over 50% of all land is used for cattle, and their crap is the #1 cause of global warming? something like that.But the land required for a nutritionally equivalent amount of plant life is something like five times more, if I remember correctly.
it makes me think if this was happening to humans and their were healthier alternative painless ways to eat, you still wouldnt care. you would just respond "humans taste good"That's not my argument at all.
but then again, i forget that humans are sooo special and god-like. when i throw that into account, makes me look like an idiot! oh wellEh? It's got nothing to do with humans being special. In fact, the arguments are the other way around: you're suggesting that we're special enough to not eat the foods to which we're biologically geared and thus attempt to override evolution/creation/<insert personal belief here>.

[djr33]

It certainly is! That's good black pudding they're wasting there! :D

We need to eat something. We've certainly arrived at this point eating meat. I don't see why we need to continue. Moral judgments are what make that matter. Suddenly, we're smart enough that we must limit ourselves, and, y'know, do the right thing. Or something. But stupid animals can eat other animals. No problem. Hmm... weird.

[jscheuer1]

I wasn't joking about the vegetables, fish, any of it. It's nice to be at or near the top of the food chain. I would also like to point out that the barbaric treatment of our foodstuffs by the industries we employ (by paying for the food) is largely a result of greed coupled with ignorance.

[BLiZZaRD]

Did anyone ask the guy in class where his information came from? Did anyone challenge him to any degree at any point about anything? Or did you all just sit there and listen to his presentation and fold your hands on your desk and watch and clap in amazement when he completed?

These kinds of speakers are designed to be "that good" because they are good public speakers, they know the edges and how to stay on them, and they can avoid "real" questions like the plague. But I bet no one bothered to challenge his Vegan stance on the world...



meat is in every way bad for our bodies


Actually, no it is not. However EVERYTHING without limits is bad for us, including fruits and veggies. In moderation we can tolerate a lot more. And man did not begin to eat meat when he made tools and weapons, he merely began to eat cooked and cut meat.

But I digress, let's challenge this guy a little. Plague... let's talk about diseases..

Fruit is the #1 carrier for human diseases over the last 100 years. Botulism, Typhoid, Salmonella Typhi...



Raw fruits and vegetables have been known to serve as vehicles of human disease for at least a century. In 1899, Morse linked typhoid infection to eating celery. Warry (1903) attributed an outbreak of typhoid fever to eating watercress grown in soil fertilized with sewage and Pixley (1913) recorded two cases of typhoid from eating uncooked rhubarb which was grown in soil known to have been fertilized with typhoid excreta. In 1912, Creel demonstrated that lettuce and radishes grown in soil containing Bacillus typhosa (now Salmonella Typhi) harboured the organism on their surfaces for up to 31 days. Melick (1917) recovered typhoid bacilli from mature lettuce and radish harvested from soil that had been inoculated at the time seeds were planted. Some parasitic helminths (e.g. Fasciola hepatica, Fasciolopsis buski) require encystment on plants to complete their life cycle. Thus, the recognition of raw fruits and vegetables as potential vehicles for transmission of pathogenic microorganisms known to cause human disease is not new.


MMM, fertilizing my farm land with sewage water, YAY! Can I have some more lettuce please?

What about production (read: after the veggies vs. the animals have been grown and harvested/raised)? In 1956 United States followed closely by the U.K. and AU began a cultural development program for the treatment, care and processing of food animals, including how cows, chickens, pigs and other animals were butchered, raised, fed and milked. This has been standard practice for over 50 years. 99.6% of the meat products and dairy products on the shelves in your stores are raised according to OSHA and CDC control standards. The old slaughter houses and methods have gone mostly by the way side and of the known 100 to 150 (that's it, no thousands after that) slaughter farms that send bad products to market are being investigated, jailed fined and shut down for good on a monthly basis.

It wasn't until 1998 (read: NINE years ago) that countries adopted an on-farm food safety program (Canada's is run by the Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point, the US by the Federal Government's OSHA And FDA departments) to ensure that farms irrigation, planting, harvesting and curing was according to how it should be. Only 82% of the operating world wide farms follow these practices, and only 75% of the produce you buy has been investigated and approved to be pure, non-hazardous to humans. Because of this we have diseases. Farmers using inhumane pesticides over a period of years has proven that lead, ammonia, and other carcinogens saturate the soil to the point of altering the taste of our fruits and vegetables.

I eat everything, as I am designed to. I have flat teeth for grinding plants and minerals. I have wide pointy teeth for tearing and ripping flesh, and I have sharp edge teeth for masticating meat and plants. While I may not personally be able to chase down a squirrel (who eats squirrel anyway?) I can catch snake, chicken, cow, pig, buffalo, and many other larger, more meaty beasts. I can bring them down if I have to. But that's my point. I don't HAVE to. Because I am smarter than they are, I can use a gun, or a nail hammer to one shot kill the beast. ONE SHOT. which the FDA, OSHA, HACCP and many other government agencies have deemed scientifically not only less traumatizing, but also less painful to the beast.

Give me the meat of a beast that was killed in one shot over the plant that was irrigated with sewer water and bedded with poisonous soil and sprayed with gases and liquids to keep it colorful and tasty (artificially I might add, no matter how organic they claim it to be) after harvesting, any day.

I wont get Ecoli, I cook my food. But I bet you get sick eating veggies before I will get sick eating meats. Salmonella, anyone?

I don't mean any offense, but this class of yours with it's pointed views and special speakers.. sounds like it sucks. I would stop being such a studious automaton, and do some thinking for yourself. Honestly, I am NOT coming down on you, but you do seem a bit gullible. If you know the next topic, study it before hand, have some notes for the other side, be educated ahead of time, and when that speaker comes in, challenge him, ask the hard questions and don't let him off the hook. Prove his material is out dated, false or one sided to a small minority. Make him state facts, sources and materials, don't just take his word for it.

I promise it will be a much better class that way.

Now, excuse me while I go eat some steak.

[james438]

well i thought i would get different responses from "educated" people. but just scary responses.

True, there are a lot of educated people here. I have some college under my belt and most of the other people here either have degrees or study almost all the time to stay sharp. If you value education then you should listen to what most of the educated people here have to say instead of dismissing what has been said as arrogant.

Oddly enough I don't value education as much as I used to though. We are all going to die anyway and have only a little control over the direction of our lives. Don't get me wrong though, I do value education a great deal and especially the benefits of critically evaluating what we read or hear. While I could add to the information already given about the benefits of eating meat and the dangers of man not eating animals I'll take a slightly different track and add the Biblical reasons that I know of.
Romans 14:1,2 "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs." This sounds like more of gentle insult to those who don't eat meat because they think it is wrong.

"Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. " Genesis 9:3. Leviticus 11:1-23 lists the meats that man is permitted to eat and the animals that man is not permitted to eat. In Acts 10:9-16 even those restrictions were lifted.

There are other references as well, but these should be enough. I have seen some people use the Bible to prove vegetarianism, but their logic is pretty silly.

I just watched the whole video. The most important lesson that can be learned from it is that animals are people too. I am for the ethical treatment of animals and that video looked ok to me. Especially where they showed the chickens getting their heads cut off at around 3-4 a second. In some cases I think they could have used a bigger knife. The last scene showing the beating of an elephant looked the best to me. In order to train an animal you need to use some discipline. Those trainers were not relishing in the mistreatment of their animals. They were doing what needed to be done in order to train teach them.

We humans really need a stronger understanding of what right and wrong is and why we think one thing is ethical and another isn't.

[BLiZZaRD]

True, there are a lot of educated people here. I have some college under my belt and most of the other people here either have degrees or study almost all the time to stay sharp.


And then there are those, like myself, that stopped after high school because it was too boring to be lectured by those that aren't doing. :D

[tech_support]

That's why I don't think about the animals being killed as I eat the food ;)

[james438]

I'm a high school drop out myself ;)

[BLiZZaRD]

I have some college under my belt


Pick one.. LOL... I have my diploma, but I felt further education was more of a nuance and a burden than a help. I wold rather go and do then sit and watch.

If I needed it, I learned it, am learning it, or won't ever learn it. I don't need to pay people my $$ to understand that. Heh.

But food.. that's primary! Next to sleep! And I love food, and red meat is good, and it's good for me, and it's good for you. If I eat meat, I get happy which prevents me from killing you out of spite.

Win - Win if you ask me :D

[james438]

yes, but you are quite intelligent and smart enough to know whether a degree is of value to you or not as opposed to following the bandwagon that says that you must go to college. You can also talk intelligently and ask the right questions. You have some skill at finding the flaws in arguments and know where to go to find the right answers. From what I know of you you are also trustworthy in your explanations. I am not trying to flatter you (which is annoying at best) but explain why your opinion should be taken seriously.


or study almost all the time to stay sharp. implying you are just as educated as the next educated person. Far too many people these days accept what they hear as fact. I know you are joking, but being able to think critically is very valuable and there are things more valuable than that too. Food and sleep are nice :o and so is a clean conscience (which I am still. Trying. To scrub. I do wish these stains would come out!).

[djr33]

The most important lesson that can be learned from it is that animals are people too.Uh, no. So are veggies, if you want to just toss out a broad claim like that. Why hot?


And, yeah. We eat these animals. How can that be "humane"?

I don't support intentional torture of animals, but, really, so what if they are happy when they're killed?
Harsh, but... y'know... we EAT them.


I'm in college, but I agree that a lot of learning can be outside the classroom. Very true for me, though college is a great place to get breadth of subject matter and culture you otherwise couldn't. Learning a skill or facts is a waste, yes, and boring, but the experience SOME classes give is good, to some extent (not to say it's all time used in the most efficient manner).

[james438]

The most important lesson that can be learned from it is that animals are people too. That is the lesson they were trying to give that I was not buying. I should have been clearer on that point. I do NOT think animals are people or vice versa ;) I believe in a hierarchy where humans are at the top. This is not to say that animals have no value. I do believe in the ethical treatment of animals, but people often take it to extremes to the point where they say that animals are people too. That's when they start (if not much earlier) to get screwy in the head.

[tech_support]

The most important lesson that can be learned from it is that animals are people too.

And we are animals.

[Twey]

The most important lesson that can be learned from it is that animals are people too.I just wanted to quote this because everyone else was.

[BLiZZaRD]

I understand the value of college. I went to one, for 3 months I tried my damnedest. I enjoyed the experience, I enjoyed the people and I loved the atmosphere, but alas, school is not for me. I guess I have realized over the years since high school, and my failed attempt at college, that I would rather teach myself. So I did. computers, Flash, web design, internet, gaming, everything I wanted to know about. I still do it, so yes I fall under the other end of your quote. I wasn't arguing that point, just thought it needed the rebuttal that college education isn't the end all be all of knowledge.



That is the lesson they were trying to give that I was not buying. I should have been clearer on that point.


Yet, after listening to one guy talk, and watching one film you are ready to abandon most meats, and dairy products as well as stop buying leather coats and silk shirts?

(Which is preposterous, as silk comes from worms, and they give it freely, and only while alive...)

It also negates your other method of debate about us catching a squirrel and using everything but the bones, which we stripped clean with our teeth.

We do use more of the animal than anyone really knows. hide, hair, meat, muscles, blood, hooves, horns, stomachs, everything from a meat cow is used for something, everything. Pigs as well. chickens and birds as well as other smaller animals, not so much, but still a lot.

So by you actually buying the leather, you are aiding the animals fate to ensure that it's death was not a waste. Keeping the memory alive, if you will.



I just wanted to quote this because everyone else was.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :D

[jscheuer1]

The most important lesson that can be learned from it is that animals are people too.

Why not, everyone else is doing it? There was a TV show called that I think. There are also people who, believing the above sentiment, would like to mate with animals.

Would you give up your life to save another human life?

Would you give up your life to save a cow?

If both, which would be more likely? Why?

[james438]

So everyone knows I am not Johnnymushio. I am James438. Our names don't look that similar I hope ;) Sheesh, if anything I am an anti-environmentalist, but mostly I don't really care. I am not of the same opinion as Johnnymushio. I eat meat and encourage people to wear fur if it works out the best for you. I am not a hunter, but I think that hunting is a great sport and have to admire the people that have to work in slaughterhouses. I actually found the film humorous at times or annoying. It made me respect the slaughterhouse business even more after watching it. I also thought it was educational. I did not change my position after watching it as I have seen similar videos in the past. I don't think that I am desensitized to what I saw. I am for the ethical treatment of animals, but I am no PETA guy nor do I think that animals are people too like I said sarcastically earlier. Please remember that I even quoted the Bible to justify my position on eating meats of every kind. Except for Johnnymushio I agree with everything that has been said thus far on this topic except for where I am being confused with Johnnymushio. I am not him.

I do agree very much with what you said in the first paragraph of your last post Blizzard. In fact you made the same point that I was trying to make about the value of a college. People who learn on their own tend to be more knowledgeable and more focused as well.

[BLiZZaRD]

Was that me? Crap I apologize, I wasn't directing anything at anyone in particular, I quote and respond to the quote, not the person, and as so happens a few different people int he same post. I apologize if I made it sound like I was talking to you and not the quote. Yikes!

[james438]

ahh, gotcha. I was getting the impression that tech support and djr33 were of the same opinion about my position so I just wanted to make it clear before ended up being challenged by all for the wrong reason.

Ah, well. No worries ;)

[jscheuer1]

Didn't Babe say that in "Pig in the City?"

(now I am joking)