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moscarda
06-01-2006, 09:29 PM
im sure this has been addressed elsewhere, and i apoligise for a duplicate thread.

is there a script that will override popup blocking? i hate pop up ads as much as the next person, but im talking about ensuring that USER INITIATED popups WILL open. im tired of complaints that some peoples browsers wont let them look at my sites! and a programmer/designer cant expect the world to take the time to alter their browser settings to allow popups. theres got to be a way to program it on the back end.

thank you thank you thank you!

jscheuer1
06-01-2006, 09:52 PM
A properly written 'user initiated pop up' will execute at least in some fashion in virtually all browsers unless the browser's anti-pop up settings are set to the most aggressive level. This is almost never their default setting. Some isp providers may also interfere with user init pops, either by providing a 'proprietary' or reconfigured browser for their clients to use or via other means. If the content is crucial, a pop up is far from the best method of providing it.

Another consideration is that simply by having javascript disabled, pop up content will either not display at all or display in a manner other than intended. This can also happen with javascript enabled, as some browsers will force pop ups into new 'tabs'.

Considering all of this, a designer should avoid pop ups whenever possible. Or if using them, restrict them to embellishments, and make every attempt at providing alternate methods for the user to view the content, if it is crucial.

moscarda
06-01-2006, 11:22 PM
grrrr

first off, why would someone disable javascript?! it is used everywhere! i'm not questioning that people do, but it would be helpful to know how big of an audience is running javascript disabled.

i guess i could leave popups for embellishments, but so many websites use them for crucial content, even for some large companies and professionals. its hard to believe that there isnt some way around the blockers. is this possibly because of extensive detect scripts that display alternate versions of pages, that are js-free? sure sounds like a lot of work.

im not much of a techie, the web work i do is graphically heavy and i care a lot about page layout and dimensions, something that i manipulate with a javascript open new window prompt. im really not prepared to let that go, i'd rather put in the extra work coding to ensure that most people have the same site experience.

thanks

Twey
06-02-2006, 12:21 AM
im not much of a techie, the web work i do is graphically heavy and i care a lot about page layout and dimensions, something that i manipulate with a javascript open new window prompt.If your site doesn't look good at any size, it needs redesigning.

first off, why would someone disable javascript?!1) Security: I remember one crucial IE flaw recently that didn't have a patch for a week or so, and the only workaround was to disable Javascript.
2) Speed: Javascript can really slow down a page on slower machines.
3) Removal of intrusive, annoying, animated adverts.

jscheuer1
06-02-2006, 03:08 AM
Now that we all know the cons of pop ups, there are some steps you can take, generally.

1 ) To get a pop up to display well in a variety of browsers, the ones configured to allow them, it is usually best to have a separate function on your page that is built around the window.open() method but that has added object detection to, in most cases, get the pop up to behave well in all of these various browsers.

2 ) Always call this function from a real link, passing its href to the pop up function with a return of false. That way, at least non-javascript enabled browsers can display the content, ex:


<a href="somepage.htm" onclick="myPopup(this.href);return false;">Link Text</a>

Most browsers that can disable pop ups usually will give the user the opportunity to decide on a case by case basis to allow the pop up. You probably can detect whether the pop up has opened or not and provide your own alert to advise the user that a pop up was missed.

Still, all in all, the safest method would be to use DHTML pop ups. These are not windows, but elements with their display property initially set to none that are positioned absolutely on the page, when activated, their display property is set to block. When dismissed, display is returned to none. Even these should either have a link, written somewhat similar to that mentioned above, for non-javascript enabled browsers, or alternate 'always visible' content for the non-javascript environment.

moscarda
06-08-2006, 02:16 PM
If your site doesn't look good at any size, it needs redesigning

would you tell a painter that a painting should be redesigned to fit a canvas of any size and proportion? i would hope not. i don't think web design should be treated any differently. designers envision specific concepts, virtual environments, making artistic decisions on purpose. if i want my window to be 800 x 600 or 300 x 500, or 400 x 400, or whatever, i will find a way to do it. if i was only worrying about functionality, for something like an e-store, i wouldn't care so much, but i'm talking about building artists websites.

moscarda
06-08-2006, 02:20 PM
Still, all in all, the safest method would be to use DHTML pop ups.

thanks, that sounds like it could work. can you direct me somewhere i could learn about how to customise a dhtml pop up? can you still have things like scroll bars and whatnot? what about a drop shadow with an alpha layer?

Twey
06-08-2006, 03:57 PM
would you tell a painter that a painting should be redesigned to fit a canvas of any size and proportion?Of course not. That would be ridiculous. A canvas is a completely different medium to the Web. A canvas will always be the same size, no matter who views it. A web page will vary. If somebody invented a canvas that stretched or shrunk to provide the optimum viewing experience, then yes, I would advise the artist to design a painting that could be stretched or shrunk without negative effects, or use a different canvas.
The Web varies depending on the user's settings. If you can't live with that, don't design a website; a PDF document might be better suited to your purpose.

moscarda
06-08-2006, 04:16 PM
The Web varies depending on the user's settings. If you can't live with that, don't design a website; a PDF document might be better suited to your purpose.

sure, if pages are designed to scale to percentages, there is variation, but a pixel is a pixel. pixel dimensions will be the same on everyone's screen. thats all im saying, thats all im trying to do. no need to be all condescending.

djr33
06-08-2006, 05:46 PM
No. A pixel is a certain percentage of a certain resolution of a certain size monitor.
I have two screens in front of me, and they vary drastically when looking at the same image. This monitor is 21", and displays the picture at about 2/3 (to me, the viewer, not related to screensize) as the other monitor (15"). Even the colors vary slightly (mac and pc).

I hate the idea too, that our designs are just suggestions, but I've come to accept it.

If you NEED content to look exactly like something, you MUST use an image (but it will still vary as I said above, due to different size monitors and color settings (which also vary by machine)).
However, using an image is annoying, takes a long time to load, and generally shows that the person has very little idea about web design.


If you only want people on windows PCs using IE 6.0 with a 15" monitor and 1024x768 resolution with a particular color setting to be able to see your page well, that's just fine. But realize how many people you're cutting out from that.
As such, if you want your page to be compatible, it has to work on many different settings. Just how it goes.
Remember, even on the 1024x768 machine mentioned above, the viewer may not have the window maximized, so even that person wouldn't be looking at your site correctly.

I'm not trying to come across as condescending, and I don't think Twey is either. A common trait among new people to web design (and people who've been doing it for years) is that they wish to rework how the web works. "Please make it so people can't save my image" or "What's the easy way to make a website based operating system?" Some of this stuff can't be done, and the rest is very hard.
Web design is all about conforming to the standards so that everyone can access your page while being creative and making a cool site.

If we go back to the artist/canvas metaphor, here's a pretty good explanation:
Sure, you should paint whatever you feel like, however you feel like. BUT if a computer was going to be grading it (and paying for it, or advertising it, whatever) you would clearly make it in a way that works or the computer.

There are two parts to web design.... design and function, where function must almost always come first. It's just something we all have to get used to.

moscarda
06-08-2006, 05:53 PM
No. A pixel is a certain percentage of a certain resolution of a certain size monitor. I have two screens in front of me, and they vary drastically when looking at the same image. This monitor is 21", and displays the picture at about 2/3 (to me, the viewer, not related to screensize) as the other monitor (15"). Even the colors vary slightly (mac and pc).

i know that pixels can look larger and smaller depending on the monitor, but it is proportional to the monitor resolution, and will therefor take up the same ratio of screen real estate. i know all about colour variation, being a photographer, i do my best optimising for web in photoshop.



There are two parts to web design.... design and function, where function must almost always come first. It's just something we all have to get used to.

thats a question of opinion my friend. when it comes to web design, i choose minimalism of function, not settle for it.

djr33
06-08-2006, 06:05 PM
it is proportional to the monitor resolution, and will therefor take up the same ratio of screen real estate.
Only if the screensize and resolution are in the same ratio.
What about a huge monitor where your design is displayed so big that it just looks bad? Or what about a tiny screen (mobile phone) where it's too small to read anything?

If you're a photographer (I do video more than web design), then you do think of things in pixels (as do I). However, specifically with web design, you need to think of your code as purely suggestions.
For example, the <b> (bold) tag has been all but replaced with <strong>, which simply makes the text "strong" which in most web browsers does mean bold, but it is emphasizing that is a suggestion, not a command.

You just have to accept (I know it's hard) that you can't have full control over everything.



Function vs. Design--
Sure. I said that function must *almost* always come first.
If you have a simple page, that's great.
But take the example of google, one of the simplest pages out there.... just an image, text box and a couple links.
But you bet there's some complex code behind it.
Basically... you just need compatible code to support your design so that it will be displayed in a way that works. Even a simple design could be ruined with weird code.

I'm dragging this way off topic; sorry. But it is just something you need to be aware of.


The main thing... you claim you want a simple site, but you're also trying to control how a user's popup blocker functions. If this could be done, they'd be worthless against ad popups, etc. because surely the pros have access to the same code you'd be using.

The previous suggestion will be helpful, though, in getting them to work. most blockers do only block automated popups. If it's user initiated, it generally goes through.